Everyone loves to hate photo radar, but this guy really has a reason to do so.
1. Comment by Diego A. (dgainc)— November 29,2009 @ 11:33PM
Ratings:-8+140
At least it will get squatched in court. Obviously they don't review the information and this is proof. Thats why this photo enforcement is just another tool to get money out of us.
2. Comment by rowe w. (moral hazard)— November 29,2009 @ 11:51PM
Ratings:-6+119
The radar companies are paid by the number of number of notices mailed, without regard to accuracy or conviction rate or even revenue from fines. As such they have no incentive to exercise any diligence or care. That is why even the grossest of errors are not caught.
5. Comment by M. M. (MMetzger)— November 30,2009 @ 1:15AM
Ratings:-15+64
Here in California it cost our city about $24,000.00 a month and to runa red light here is rather a steep fine of almost $500.00
I guess most of it goes to pay the company who runs those illegal cameras.
I can't see how they canenforce something like this but they do whatever the hell they want to anyways.
6. Comment by jim s. (kingrat)— November 30,2009 @ 2:52AM
Ratings:-11+82
tell me again why it's illegal for me to strap on a light bar and decals (then i'm impersonating a peace officer) and it's ok for the contractor to do the same thing........
10. Comment by Floyd F. (northstar)— November 30,2009 @ 6:08AM
Ratings:-6+50
The citizens of AZ aren't the only ones being screwed over by this money making scheme,down in Fla they have the same type of robbery going on,one of these days things will really come to a head in the country and it won't be a pretty sight.
11. Comment by Jefferson C. (commandermarcos)— November 30,2009 @ 6:19AM
Ratings:-7+72
Even if not operated badly by money-hungry bureaucracy, state-operated traffic cameras are the most dangerous points on the highway.
Everybody - including the Highway Patrol, know that sudden change in speed - not absolute speed - is the principal cause of freeway accidents. But they insist on putting up these artificial braking points - I counted 6 on my trip between Tucson and Flagstaff last week.
Everybody brakes when we see these points, even if we are doing the legal limit. That's because we all assume that we may have missed a local reduced speed trap set up by the State to earn more money by writing more tickets.
so everybody brkes in front of you, and you brake to avoid them, all the while with your eye on the rearview hoping the guy behind you is braking as well.
Crazy scenario for the State to be intentionally creating on the otherwise extremely safe Interstate Highway system.
16. Comment by John C. (jcaywood1954)— November 30,2009 @ 6:34AM
Ratings:-3+74
I am really getting tired of photo radar. I was neutral about it at first, but I've had several near-misses with people in front of me slamming on their brakes. I don't tailgate, so I stop in time. It's the bozos behind me that leave the skid marks on the road as they slam on their breaks to avoid rear-ending me.
It is an experiment that failed. Yes, it generated revenue for the city/county/state, but at what cost? It's just not worth it. Photo radar should go.
17. Comment by Robert E. (Liberty)— November 30,2009 @ 6:40AM
Ratings:-2+50
A year ago I was traveling thru res near Sells
A car passed me (I was about 5 over) on a curve and immediately slammed on brakes after passing me
Speed trap by a manned officer
Guy in front of me pulled over because he knew he had been busted
Cop pulled ME over for going 78MPH in a 55 - with a car 20' in front of me!
I took it to court and what got me off was officer said he gave me ticket @ mile post 191 when we really were at 181 - I wasn't speeding, the other car was!
*hit happens, not just with the photo radar but in 'real' world too...
19. Comment by Jerry M. (Dr. Dirt)— November 30,2009 @ 7:07AM
Ratings:-54+31
Well folks, this is what happens when the Republicans break 2 of the legs on the 3 legged stool of state revenue. We used to have a stable revenue system of corporate taxes, sales taxes and property taxes. Take away 2 of the 3 and what do you get? Revenue "enhancements" everywhere from state parks to parking tickets to the highways. Please remember, we have had a Republican controlled state legislature for as long as I can remember. You can't blame the liberals this time.
That said, they should just stop posting the sign warning the scofflaws and nail the speeders. By the time they figure it out that their picture was taken, it is too late. It would stop the sudden braking routine.
20. Comment by Keith W. (keithw)— November 30,2009 @ 7:13AM
Ratings:-4+49
Ok. My family moved here in late May of this year. I agree that drivers slow down at the photo enforcement locations and then speed up after passing the cameras. I also believe that the photo enforcement van played a part in the school bus car accident on Ajo Hwy. I know the people in the car were on drugs but, I bet the driver was looking in the rear view (having just passed the photo van) when he drifted into the oncoming traffic and struck the school bus. This would be a contributing factor to the accident.
What happened to the right to face your accuser in court? This has to be a cash cow for the government.
22. Comment by J. R. M. (Mr Optimistic)— November 30,2009 @ 7:31AM
Ratings:-3+42
These states that are relying on the revenue generated by photocops are gonna be in a heap of trouble when photo radar is declared UNCONSTITUTIONAL on the grounds of equal protection under the law!!!!!!
24. Comment by liz a. (van24)— November 30,2009 @ 7:42AM
Ratings:-2+47
one more thing . there have been reports that the courts in phoenix , scotsdale,and other cities up north, have been disregarding our right to have the ticket served directly to us by a prosses server. the trend now is just suspend your licence and make you pay . when you go to court they dont let you bring up the fact you were never served. agree with it or not . it is our right to be served in person here in arizona. so now they are taking away our rights now to make money!
25. Comment by Bill J. (jonzie)— November 30,2009 @ 7:43AM
Ratings:-17+30
Grow up 19. Grow up and get an education. This is not a political party issue. Get out of the sand box and step into the real world.
The state still draws revenue from an exorbinate number of different sources of taxation, the single largest being it's resident's compensation for labor; more commonly referred to as income tax, including the taxes you mentioned, none of which have ceased.
The states financil woes are an allocation issue. That my dear is the responsibility of all elected officials and the last time I checked there were a good many from both political parties, thereby making ALL of them accountable.
So grow up would ya, anybody can stand on the sideline, call names and behave in a childish fashion but it's the players, the people who act that matter.
27. Comment by Bruce T. (azd5blue)— November 30,2009 @ 7:56AM
Ratings:-32+23
#20. Pure speculation ... no one knows exactly what the driver was doing or why he drifted into the other lane ... except the driver himself ... and he isn't talking anymore. To blame the photo enforcement vehicle for this accident is incorrect.
I personally have no problem with photo enforcement cmaeras or red-light cameras .. or even cameras in stores. Obey the law and you won't get in trouble. Seems very simple to me.
29. Comment by Matthew B. (drinkkman)— November 30,2009 @ 7:59AM
Ratings:-36+12
I have no problems with cameras. I'm always at or under the limit and I always pay attention to the posted limit. No need to slow down for them and I'm never close enough to someones rear end to have to slow down if they do.
This from someone who hasn't had a moving violation in 22 years and drives 120 miles a day.
31. Comment by candi l. (candi63)— November 30,2009 @ 8:30AM
Ratings:-7+41
We were on our way to Phoenix on Wednesday night and every time we passed a photo enforcement zone there was an accident due to people slamming on brakes and other hitting them. The cameras were more of a hazard than help. Scary.
33. Comment by Robert S. (rstar1)— November 30,2009 @ 8:42AM
Ratings:-3+27
#2
"Just another reason to remove them from society. The city seems to always be broke but you never see what this money is going for."
EXACTLY RIGHT!
No mateer how many ways the city can think of to fill its coffers, it is ALWAYS broke! So is its law enforcement - except that it apparently has no problem paying dozens of its officers 100K+ per year!
I too wonder where all that money coming in from the 10's of 1000's radar tickets being issued is going!
34. Comment by Trodel P. (trodelpost)— November 30,2009 @ 9:04AM
Ratings:-4+28
And another reason to throw those tickets in the trash. They are not issued or served by a licensed law enforcement officer and are meant for revenue generation only.
35. Comment by Kris S. (AZ Refugee)— November 30,2009 @ 9:05AM
Ratings:-2+26
#17 - Same thing happened to me, only it was an unmannned photo radar van in Tempe. Someone passed me at +15mph on the left, slapped the brakes on and backed off behind me and the van took the picture of me as I passed.
Time for a voter initiaitive to ban them all.
There also was a story three years ago about a guy in California who received a personalized plate "NO PLATE" because he put that down as his third option. He received thousands of photo radar and parking tickets where "no plate" had been written down on the citation for cars with no plates on them.
36. Comment by James H. (83470)— November 30,2009 @ 9:11AM
Ratings:-7+28
Don't forget that those cameras are recording 24 hours a day. They have a picture of you and everyone in the car with you, whether you are breaking any laws or not. Big Brother really is watching you.
40. Comment by bill l. (DzT)— November 30,2009 @ 10:10AM
Ratings:-2+34
The best way to fight photo radar tickets is to ignore the mailed ticket, wait to be served & then request a court hearing to fight it.
Request to have the police officer who signed the ticket to be at the court hearing.
Request documentation that the officer has been trained in traffic offences & Arizona traffic statutes.
Request that the radar operator be at the hearing.
Request documentation that the radar equipmnt was calibrated properly .
Then request documentation by the radar operator that he has been properly trained to calibrate the equipment.
If everyone did this .... their system would be tied up appearing in endless court procedings & they would end up loosing money having to pay a cop,a radar operator & their lawyer to run around at court apperances all day.
Sadly most of the "sheep" just pay the ticket & allow the local parasites to extort money from them.
43. Comment by Bill C. (Gremmie)— November 30,2009 @ 10:34AM
Ratings:-34+7
Elsewhere in the news...
There were FIVE accidents over the weekend, involving FOURTEEN vehicles, with TWO fatalities, and ALL accidents were caused by drivers exceeding a safe and prudent speed limit. You say take out the photo radar, and vote down budgets to put more officers on the streets, when time after time, it is you speeders that cause the carnage on the highways!
What really scrambles my eggs is that you don't view speeding as a problem until you have "that one" accident and become part of the problem, then rather than take responsibility, you take the coward's way out. This is America, admit nothing and get a good lawyer to get you off on a technicality. If that doesn't work, put on your saddest of sad faces and say, "I'm Soooooo sorry" and "I just...couldn't stop" and, (wiping a fake tear from your eye) "If I could have done ANYTHING to prevent this from happening..."
Personally, I'll support the photo radar and law enforcement over you fine scofflaws...
44. Comment by liz a. (van24)— November 30,2009 @ 10:48AM
Ratings:-1+23
a day without accidents.. never heard of such a thing , even after cameras . it still happends..and the two fatalities were in a dust storm . get your facts right.
48. Comment by Bill C. (Gremmie)— November 30,2009 @ 11:11AM
Ratings:-17+4
#44, Liz, yes, the two fatalities were in a dust storm, caused by a driver that exceeded a safe and reasonable speed limit. The point here is that speeders cause accidents all the time, yet all I here on the comment boards is "Take the cameras out." No society should have to put up with 37,000 fatalities a YEAR caused mostly by people who break the law! Speeders "think" they are good drivers just because they haven't had "that accident" yet. In reality, speeders who have not had an accident are just surrounded by enough good drivers to make up for the speeder's bad driving.
Sooo, come up with a better plan! Find a way to stop speeders from destroying thousands of lives a year, and I'm sure you'll have society's full support to remove the photo radar. But if you can't come up with anything better, deal with the consequences!
49. Comment by Robert S. (rstar1)— November 30,2009 @ 11:18AM
Ratings:-3+18
#43
"Personally, I'll support the photo radar and law enforcement over you fine scofflaws..."
Bet you'll just roll over when they start tapping your phone without your knowledge, intercepting your online travels, or putting CC cameras in every public location so they can keep an eye on your contacts and shopping habits - all in the name of "protecting us" of course, right?
50. Comment by Bill C. (Gremmie)— November 30,2009 @ 11:30AM
Ratings:-13+3
#49, Well, after serving in the military for over 22 years, and working as a civilian contractor for the Air Force for 10 years, I'd say I doubt it. I've been hearing about "1984" since...well...1984! I am not as concerned about that as I am from seeing friends turned into veggies by speeders, drunk drivers, texters, and the like. Call me irresponsible, but nothing can prepare you for a preventable accident that snuffs a loved one. Ask me how I know that...
51. Comment by Thomas C. (edward)— November 30,2009 @ 11:31AM
Ratings:-0+13
The video of a citation at a red light or speed cam can sometimes disprove the still camera shot.
My daughter in law was cited at Oracle and River while making a left turn on the green arrow.
The video clearly shows that her car had already passed over that stupid white line while the yellow light was still on
It took some effort to get the proof. The DivX video player link that ATS (private company) provides only works with windows vista. I had to find and download a version that worked with windows XP.
They want you to presume that you are guilty just like they unconstitutionally do.
Always check the video. It can be freeze framed at 1/15th second intervals.
If you appear to already be over that white line while the yellow is still on, take a digital picture of your video screen.
The underground sensors under the line aren't reliable because they are simple metal detectors.
The amount plastic and thin sheet metal in the front of modern cars varies from vehicle to vehicle.
Again we have a failure to provide equal justice under the law.
BTW The judge had to dismiss the citation even though the still picture made her look guilty.
The video of the incident can come in handy. On the other hand why do the video cameras run 24-7???
52. Comment by Dan W. (washuk)— November 30,2009 @ 11:32AM
Ratings:-0+16
We need a public vote on this issue. That should settle it, and keep a watchful eye on the law makers, the loan sharks are trying to circumvent our recent vote to throw them out of the state..!!!
53. Comment by Julie C. (EXCALIBUR)— November 30,2009 @ 11:41AM
Ratings:-1+9
Robert E -if you were doing " about 5 over " then you WERE speeding.
But I am still glad you beat it. Arizona has squeezed us hard enough then squandered every cent.
Az has caused major dangers with the cameras causing the sudden braking. It's only a matter of time before it's serious . They Don't care at all what the citizens of this state want say or vote for. Only the beaurocracy with money in this state gets a say anyway.
54. Comment by James H. (83470)— November 30,2009 @ 11:42AM
Ratings:-3+10
Speeding doesn't cause collisions. Tailgating and inattention do.
56. Comment by Donald L. (Frodo)— November 30,2009 @ 11:48AM
Ratings:-2+12
#50, not sure what your time in the military and as a civilian contractor has to do with invasion of privacy and the increasing encroachment on our private lives by agencies public and private.
#1. When I am accused of a crime (i.e. speeding) and I get a ticket in the mail weeks or months after the infraction, nothing was done at the time of the infraction to cause me to change my behavior nor to slow down. #2 The camera takes my picture, generates funds for a city, county, or state entity and I never get to face the accuser, even if I go to court since the camera caught me, not an officer of the law.
#3 To reiterate, red light cameras and speed trap cameras do absolutely nothing to curb traffic accidents, injuries or fatalities. Statistical information is skewed to support the claims of those benefiting from the revenue generating cameras. If I run a red light and a camera takes my picture, that does not stop an accident from happening nor will it stop injuries or deaths should an accident happen. It can not, will not, can not stop accidents from happening!!!! Until statistics are compiled at alternate traffic routes that people take to avoid red light cameras, the statistics used by proponents of revenue generating cameras if invalid!!!! If I am doing 100 mph on a freeway and one (or more) of the dozen or so permanent or portable speed cameras one encounters between Phoenix and Quartzite gets my picture, they have not changed my poor driving practices nor have they prevented accidents or deaths. Why? Because I can see the cameras in the distance and slow down to get past them and then speed up as I get past them. This creates the additional hazard of people hitting their brakes on a two lane freeway at 70-80 mph to scrub speed quickly and setting up the possibility of rear-enders at speed.
#49, if you don't believe 1984 is gaining ground on us, you have been living in a cave. Your life, in electronic format, is available to anyone with a few dollars . . .
60. Comment by Skip S. (SkooterMan)— November 30,2009 @ 12:23PM
Ratings:-0+9
Bill 48 if we have 37000 fatalities per year, we have 37000 drivers that have caused accidents.
So you actually expect putting cameras on over 100 million drivers (thus transferring wealth from individuals to local governments) to directly cause a reduction in driving fatalities???
Because the overwhelming majority of Americans DO NOT make that leap-of-faith conclusion...
61. Comment by Robert T. (robaltay)— November 30,2009 @ 12:28PM
Ratings:-0+6
If the county or state were serious about safety, they would work to get the lousy drivers off the road instead of just handing-out fines. Some of the worst drivers are the ones who can easily afford the fines. The guy who ran over me did so in a brand new Cadillac, and wasn't even given a field sobriety test or made to blow a breathalizer, despite causing me critical injuries. He was cited and ended-up paying a $100.00(or so)fine. This was not his first serious accident, either.
62. Comment by Bill C. (Gremmie)— November 30,2009 @ 12:38PM
Ratings:-7+5
#56, Point being, Military and civilian contractors have to undergo background and security checks, and their general lives are under much more scrutiny than the general public. A lot of people are willing to give up a few of their personal freedoms to ensure you have the right to complain about yours.
1984 might be gaining ground on us, especially with the advent of the electronic age, but it is not here yet, even after 30+ years! (I remember seing the play 1984 in the early 70's) And it might not happen until 2084, if then. Speeders killing people, however happened in the 70's, the 80's, the 90's, and so far this century in horrendous numbers. So, what should we devote our energy towards? Something that might happen...maybe...someday? Or something that happens for real everyday? If I said 37,000 people were jailed by the government mostly because of electronic evesdropping, you would be up in arms! Yet 37,000 people lost their lives last year, mostly due to speeders, and you can dismiss it without a second thought. Hailey's Comet might hit the earth next time through, should I worry about that too?
And, when a speed camera lights up, I guarantee that people notice! Not only the perps, but those around as well. They must be doing their intended purpose, why else would all the scofflaws screem so loudly about them?
One more thing, and I'll quit for a day. When you signed your driver's license, you agreed to a set of rules of the road as set forth. Now, drivers aren't sorry that they break the law (and their agreement), they are just sorry that they are caught. Sorry indeed!
63. Comment by Skip S. (SkooterMan)— November 30,2009 @ 12:41PM
Ratings:-1+6
From a purely money-making standpoint, Robert 61, the government wants these people back on the roads so hopefully they can fine them again.
From there, dedicating police resources to them, then tying them up in courts, and finally incarcerating them - all leads to obscene growth in government, which is their major underlying objective.
And finally, since they cannot do all of the above to absolute perfection, they throw out their favorite "it's for our chidren's future" card and beg for yet another tax increase...
65. Comment by Thomas C. (edward)— November 30,2009 @ 1:07PM
Ratings:-0+8
59. Comment by John J. (JohnjjohannaCats) — November 30,2009 @ 12:21PM
Ratings: -0 +1
""I have heard that unless being physically served your ticket within 6 months of the citation, than the ticket and fine are dropped.""
I don't know the time frame for local courts.
The private companies who have the camera contract also do the mailing and the physical serving
The court system presumes that you have been served.
I do know that after you have missed your court date your license will be automatically revoked without you being notified.
If you are stopped by law enforcement for any reason after that your vehicle will be impounded on the spot. And you will be cited for driving on a suspended liscense.
The only way you can get your vehicle out of the impound lot is to pay the citation fine (admit guilt). Then pay the driving on a suspended license fine.
By this time you are out about $800
dollars, points will be assessed against your liscense and your insurance company will be notified.
Even if you can prove that you never received the citation nor were ever served you can not get your money back without suing the city.
I have a friend whose citation was apparently sent to his deceased father's home. The company also claimed that he had been physically served at a vacant house
And yes he had placed a change of address with the DMV.
He went through two months of being bounced around about getting his money back.
He finally went to the City Managers Office and complained.
There was a thorough investigation and a court officer finally called him and told him The charges were dropped.
On the down side however he was told the only way to get his money back was to sue the city
I am encouraging him to go to small claims court and put a lien on city hall.
66. Comment by Mike W. (MikeW67)— November 30,2009 @ 1:09PM
Ratings:-3+1
Other new vistas in state government budget resolution: Legalized gambling and pot... ;^) -- cool site; Balkingpoints ; incredible satellite view of earth
67. Comment by Jerry M. (Dr. Dirt)— November 30,2009 @ 1:30PM
Ratings:-7+6
Once again, I will state, it is the Republicans who gave this to us, not the Democrats. We haven't controlled the legislature in a looong time, if ever in AZ.
69. Comment by John J. (JohnjjohannaCats)— November 30,2009 @ 2:16PM
Ratings:-0+3
#65 (Thomas C.) - Thanks for the story. It is a shame to hear about the trouble your friend went through. Dealing with the city can be horrible.
I have a buddy who recieved a citation in the mail. He swore that he did not get a ticket and does not remember being snapped by cameras. But he recieved a ticket. He said that there is no way that he is paying the ticket.
After 6 months he chedked with DMV and the ticket had been dropped and he had nothing on his record.
Someone at DMV actually told him that unless he recieves and pays the fine that they would not know about.
He was never given a court date, never contacted by the private companie or DMV and therefore had NOTHING on his record after 6 months.
It seems as though, just as with the citations, that it depends on the processor and whether or not they are lazy or proactive.
70. Comment by Bruce T. (azd5blue)— November 30,2009 @ 2:47PM
Ratings:-4+2
#51 - The camera will flash if you enter the intersection AFTER the red light is on. The white stop line IS NOT the beginning of the intersection ... something most people do not know. The intersection begins at a point beyond the white stop line ... where you would "intersect" with side traffic ... thus the word "intersection. If you draw line from the right hand curb of the road to your left to the right hand curb of the road to your right, this line would begin the intersection. And this point could be some distance from the white STOP line on some of the bigger intersections. Your daughter-in-law may have been past the white STOP line when it was yellow ... but it may have been red before she entered the "intersection." I'm not saying she was since I don't know ... just stating what could have occurred.
Knowledge about traffic laws can prevent accidents and traffic tickets. Another area that drivers seem to misunderstand is the HAWK lights. Also, school crossing zones are another area that is misunderstood.
And as for photo enforcement cameras on I-10, I driven past them many times and never have I seen an accident just past it nor experienced the "slow-down" by other drivers. There is plenty of warning prior for "speeders" to slow down ... IF they are paying attention.
Again, I say, obey the laws ... traffic and otherwise ... and you won't have problems.
73. Comment by Bill F. (TucsonVetteGuy)— November 30,2009 @ 3:28PM
Ratings:-2+6
"To protect and serve"
Remember when that meant something?...... Now we have "To collect and harass".
Law enforcement has become a joke in this country. The police are lazy and look for easy revenue instead of fighting real crime, as the danger factor is lower for busting kids for drinking and hiding outside bars waiting for that easy dui. than it is for say, rapists and home invaders who might shoot back at them. It is amazing how many dui's are handed out every year and how few car thieves are caught, oh but wait... to catch a car thief would require the police to actually work and not sit in their cars until something illegal happens in front of them.
Has anyone noticed that police are not the friends you tell your kids to trust and tell the truth too anymore?
Cops are being put in jail for crimes that used to be associated with hardened criminals on a regular basis.
For the majority, it has now become a country of "Fear the police they are not our friends", they work for the enemy...The city and state.
Cops are being killed on a weekly basis in this country (sometimes targeted) and I am finding it harder and harder to show compassion for the fallen, as few of our police are heroes anymore...and more are just criminals with badges and power hungry people taking advantage of a weakened society.
And they wonder why people mistrust the police.....
76. Comment by J P. (pjp)— November 30,2009 @ 4:00PM
Ratings:-0+7
The camera van snapped a photo of the guy in front of me the other evening after dark. The light was so bright and dazzling it completely blinded me. Yeah, that camera sure helps with safety.
77. Comment by bill l. (DzT)— November 30,2009 @ 4:19PM
Ratings:-0+5
When the photo radar cameras were first installed... The city swore up & down that it was for "safety only" & not to generate income.
If that is true {LOL}....
Then there should be no monetary fine at all to pay after receiving a ticket...
Mandatory traffic school should be the ONLY way to get the ticket cleared.
78. Comment by Thomas C. (edward)— November 30,2009 @ 4:57PM
Ratings:-0+2
70. Comment by Bruce T. (azd5blue) — November 30,2009 @ 2:47PM
Ratings: -2 +2
""#51 - The camera will flash if you enter the intersection AFTER the red light is on. The white stop line IS NOT the beginning of the intersection ... something most people do not know.""
I wasn't referring to the white line near the crosswalk. I was indeed referring to the the white line you mention.
Oddly the line only exists in front of the two left turn lanes. Most of the citations are issued to people making left turns on the green arrow.
A left turn on the green arrow is the safest maneuver a driver can make at an intersection.
Why are these vehicles targeted in the name of safety??
That line is where the sensors are located and it is a different distance out at every intersection. It may be a different distances out at two opposite sides of the same intersection.
Using the engineering point of entry into the the intersection as the legal point of entry into an intersection was obviously done with the intention of confusing people.
The legal point of entry into an intersection for citation purposes had always been the crosswalk and was used traditionally by law enforcement.
That is not equal justice under the law.
People have always been taught not to stop on the crosswalk. Now all of a sudden it is OK to stop on the crosswalk.
That was a purely unethical psychological maneuver on the part of the city and the private company who tells the city what to do.
People are not psychics
The varied distance between the crosswalk and the sometimes painted imaginary line out in space somewhere is nothing but a very intentional scam zone.
79. Comment by Jay T. (jaytaylor)— November 30,2009 @ 5:06PM
Ratings:-1+2
I think the comment (73) that cops are not our friends is cynical and grossly unfair. And to not show compassion for police who are killed in the line of duty is wrong in every imaginable way.
80. Comment by Thomas C. (edward)— November 30,2009 @ 5:15PM
Ratings:-1+1
79. Comment by Jay T. (jaytaylor) — November 30,2009 @ 5:06PM
Ratings: -0 +1
""I think the comment (73) that cops are not our friends is cynical and grossly unfair. And to not show compassion for police who are killed in the line of duty is wrong in every imaginable way.""
Your right Jay. What has hapened to us?
I grew up in a small town that had only five poice officers.
I was on a first name basis with all of them. I really miss those days.
83. Comment by Jay T. (jaytaylor)— November 30,2009 @ 6:00PM
Ratings:-1+3
Re #82, the citation I got has two photos at the bottom. One is of the driver and one is his FRONT license plate NJOY AZ. By the way, I don't flatly disapprove of cameras or other safety enforcement tools that will reduce accidents and save lives.
Over the years my ad agency produced public service ad campaigns that raised the legal drinking age back to 21... and toughened Arizona's DUI laws...and changed our headlight laws, requiring lights to be turned on at sunset instead of a half hour after.
What I questioned is the yoyos running this camera speed enforcement thing who don't know what they're doing.
84. Comment by Thomas C. (edward)— November 30,2009 @ 6:20PM
Ratings:-0+2
83. Comment by Jay T. (jaytaylor) — November 30,2009 @ 6:00PM
""Over the years my ad agency produced public service ad campaigns that raised the legal drinking age back to 21... and toughened Arizona's DUI laws...and changed our headlight laws, requiring lights to be turned on at sunset instead of a half hour after.""
That is a good example of the common sense approach in making laws.
Everyone knows when the sun is going down. Few people could keep track of the half hour later part:)
87. Comment by T S. (shado)— November 30,2009 @ 7:34PM
Ratings:-0+5
Due to the fact we have cameras trying to enforce rules of the road, there are no cops out there. We just traveled from Illinois to Tucson, and only saw 2...yes only 2 police cars the whole way. Yet for the most part most drivers were following the speed limit of 75. There are always a few breakers. We did not see any cameras on the highways until Arizona. Also, my son got a photo ticket in the mail, the address listed as the offense road does not even exist, he was 5 over the limit and the ticket was $211 !! That's flippin' highway robbery! Before he could even respond to it, a process server showed up at the door and issued his ticket in person. When he went to the city court to pay his ticket they tacked on and extra $35 for the server!@!! So just getting the ticket isn't enough for the city...they have to find ways to make more money off you.
I cannot WAIT to move the heck out of this town!!
Lousy schools, no jobs, high cost of living, high utilities, and high crime some of which is being perpurtrated by our own government. Sad really.
89. Comment by Kristen B. (kbury)— November 30,2009 @ 8:15PM
Ratings:-0+6
I recently received two tickets, picutres of two different women driving a rental car five days apart while I had the lease contract for that car. The tickets were issued in Tolleson and Tempe. I live in Tucson and was not even near those areas and had the rental car in my posession. I called to reach loss control (Southern Arizona) and request an investigation into double plates or swithched plates. They told me this happens all the time and to send in my i.d. and say it wasn't me. I did that and later received a summons to appear in Tempe court to prove the lady (clearly a different ethnicity) was not me. I went in person to the rental car company and requested action and requested physically to see the car that was on my contract. Finally, loss control (Phoenix) took action. The plates were switched on the two cars and I had to deal with photo enforcement issues as a result. It is in process as the rental car company is dealing with the courts. I hope this mistake is cleared without further action on my part. This would not have happened with a law enforcement officer issuing the ticket because the correct drivers would have been cited.
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Road runner : Photo radar shoots a fake, cites owner of legit 'N JOY AZ' plate
Everyone loves to hate photo radar, but this guy really has a reason to do so.At least it will get squatched in court. Obviously they don't review the information and this is proof. Thats why this photo enforcement is just another tool to get money out of us.
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The radar companies are paid by the number of number of notices mailed, without regard to accuracy or conviction rate or even revenue from fines. As such they have no incentive to exercise any diligence or care. That is why even the grossest of errors are not caught.
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Just another reason to remove them from society. The city seems to always be broke but you never see what this money is going for.
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typical goverment inaction in action again.
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Here in California it cost our city about $24,000.00 a month and to runa red light here is rather a steep fine of almost $500.00
I guess most of it goes to pay the company who runs those illegal cameras.
I can't see how they canenforce something like this but they do whatever the hell they want to anyways.
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tell me again why it's illegal for me to strap on a light bar and decals (then i'm impersonating a peace officer) and it's ok for the contractor to do the same thing........
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at what point do the citizens of this country stop the buck snort that is being imposed on them by government?
it is ALL about the $$$$$$, safety issues are just the means by which bureaucrats justify the theft.
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And thats why a REAL person should be writing tickets.. not a machine.
If we have so many cops why arent THEY out doing the "catching perps", isnt that their job?
If we have Cameras doing their job, lets let some of them go and save some money!!!!
No More, No Mas.
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I think there is a letter missing, there should be a O after the N...
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The citizens of AZ aren't the only ones being screwed over by this money making scheme,down in Fla they have the same type of robbery going on,one of these days things will really come to a head in the country and it won't be a pretty sight.
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Even if not operated badly by money-hungry bureaucracy, state-operated traffic cameras are the most dangerous points on the highway.
Everybody - including the Highway Patrol, know that sudden change in speed - not absolute speed - is the principal cause of freeway accidents. But they insist on putting up these artificial braking points - I counted 6 on my trip between Tucson and Flagstaff last week.
Everybody brakes when we see these points, even if we are doing the legal limit. That's because we all assume that we may have missed a local reduced speed trap set up by the State to earn more money by writing more tickets.
so everybody brkes in front of you, and you brake to avoid them, all the while with your eye on the rearview hoping the guy behind you is braking as well.
Crazy scenario for the State to be intentionally creating on the otherwise extremely safe Interstate Highway system.
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If we make it enough of a pain, he'll pay. Just like everyone will......
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awwwwww MOMA, it wasn't me!!
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All that BS about an officer reviewing the ticket, did not believe it then and the proof is now in this article.
Commercial companies enforcing the law have no interest in facts or justice, only money $$$$$$$$.
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Thats the game plan, make it a pain in the A$$ so the people will cough up the dough just to close the books on the matter.
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I am really getting tired of photo radar. I was neutral about it at first, but I've had several near-misses with people in front of me slamming on their brakes. I don't tailgate, so I stop in time. It's the bozos behind me that leave the skid marks on the road as they slam on their breaks to avoid rear-ending me.
It is an experiment that failed. Yes, it generated revenue for the city/county/state, but at what cost? It's just not worth it. Photo radar should go.
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A year ago I was traveling thru res near Sells
A car passed me (I was about 5 over) on a curve and immediately slammed on brakes after passing me
Speed trap by a manned officer
Guy in front of me pulled over because he knew he had been busted
Cop pulled ME over for going 78MPH in a 55 - with a car 20' in front of me!
I took it to court and what got me off was officer said he gave me ticket @ mile post 191 when we really were at 181 - I wasn't speeding, the other car was!
*hit happens, not just with the photo radar but in 'real' world too...
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Photo enforcement has nothing to do with safety. It is all about revenue. The cameras need to go away.
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Well folks, this is what happens when the Republicans break 2 of the legs on the 3 legged stool of state revenue. We used to have a stable revenue system of corporate taxes, sales taxes and property taxes. Take away 2 of the 3 and what do you get? Revenue "enhancements" everywhere from state parks to parking tickets to the highways. Please remember, we have had a Republican controlled state legislature for as long as I can remember. You can't blame the liberals this time.
That said, they should just stop posting the sign warning the scofflaws and nail the speeders. By the time they figure it out that their picture was taken, it is too late. It would stop the sudden braking routine.
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Ok. My family moved here in late May of this year. I agree that drivers slow down at the photo enforcement locations and then speed up after passing the cameras. I also believe that the photo enforcement van played a part in the school bus car accident on Ajo Hwy. I know the people in the car were on drugs but, I bet the driver was looking in the rear view (having just passed the photo van) when he drifted into the oncoming traffic and struck the school bus. This would be a contributing factor to the accident.
What happened to the right to face your accuser in court? This has to be a cash cow for the government.
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Between the cameras and the stupidity of law enforcement what a sad commentary on both.
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These states that are relying on the revenue generated by photocops are gonna be in a heap of trouble when photo radar is declared UNCONSTITUTIONAL on the grounds of equal protection under the law!!!!!!
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They picked a fight with the wrong guy. Jay will win out and continue to garner publicity for his clever Arizona slogan.
Go Jay!
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one more thing . there have been reports that the courts in phoenix , scotsdale,and other cities up north, have been disregarding our right to have the ticket served directly to us by a prosses server. the trend now is just suspend your licence and make you pay . when you go to court they dont let you bring up the fact you were never served. agree with it or not . it is our right to be served in person here in arizona. so now they are taking away our rights now to make money!
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Grow up 19. Grow up and get an education. This is not a political party issue. Get out of the sand box and step into the real world.
The state still draws revenue from an exorbinate number of different sources of taxation, the single largest being it's resident's compensation for labor; more commonly referred to as income tax, including the taxes you mentioned, none of which have ceased.
The states financil woes are an allocation issue. That my dear is the responsibility of all elected officials and the last time I checked there were a good many from both political parties, thereby making ALL of them accountable.
So grow up would ya, anybody can stand on the sideline, call names and behave in a childish fashion but it's the players, the people who act that matter.
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Excellent comment, Bill J #25
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#20. Pure speculation ... no one knows exactly what the driver was doing or why he drifted into the other lane ... except the driver himself ... and he isn't talking anymore. To blame the photo enforcement vehicle for this accident is incorrect.
I personally have no problem with photo enforcement cmaeras or red-light cameras .. or even cameras in stores. Obey the law and you won't get in trouble. Seems very simple to me.
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"cameras" ... sorry for the spelling error.
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I have no problems with cameras. I'm always at or under the limit and I always pay attention to the posted limit. No need to slow down for them and I'm never close enough to someones rear end to have to slow down if they do.
This from someone who hasn't had a moving violation in 22 years and drives 120 miles a day.
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Get a new plate and save yourself the headache. Sometimes the easy solution is the best solution.
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We were on our way to Phoenix on Wednesday night and every time we passed a photo enforcement zone there was an accident due to people slamming on brakes and other hitting them. The cameras were more of a hazard than help. Scary.
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#27-BRUCE-Well Said!!!
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#2
"Just another reason to remove them from society. The city seems to always be broke but you never see what this money is going for."
EXACTLY RIGHT!
No mateer how many ways the city can think of to fill its coffers, it is ALWAYS broke! So is its law enforcement - except that it apparently has no problem paying dozens of its officers 100K+ per year!
I too wonder where all that money coming in from the 10's of 1000's radar tickets being issued is going!
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And another reason to throw those tickets in the trash. They are not issued or served by a licensed law enforcement officer and are meant for revenue generation only.
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#17 - Same thing happened to me, only it was an unmannned photo radar van in Tempe. Someone passed me at +15mph on the left, slapped the brakes on and backed off behind me and the van took the picture of me as I passed.
Time for a voter initiaitive to ban them all.
There also was a story three years ago about a guy in California who received a personalized plate "NO PLATE" because he put that down as his third option. He received thousands of photo radar and parking tickets where "no plate" had been written down on the citation for cars with no plates on them.
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Don't forget that those cameras are recording 24 hours a day. They have a picture of you and everyone in the car with you, whether you are breaking any laws or not. Big Brother really is watching you.
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Another reminder that the 70% majority that does not want photo radar doesn't matter, we no longer live in a representative democracy.
LET'S TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK.
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I thought that plate holders which obscure any of the writing or stickers on a plate were illegal now?
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It would be nice if the photo radar was leaving Arizona on the same bus as the auto title loan sharks.
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The best way to fight photo radar tickets is to ignore the mailed ticket, wait to be served & then request a court hearing to fight it.
Request to have the police officer who signed the ticket to be at the court hearing.
Request documentation that the officer has been trained in traffic offences & Arizona traffic statutes.
Request that the radar operator be at the hearing.
Request documentation that the radar equipmnt was calibrated properly .
Then request documentation by the radar operator that he has been properly trained to calibrate the equipment.
If everyone did this .... their system would be tied up appearing in endless court procedings & they would end up loosing money having to pay a cop,a radar operator & their lawyer to run around at court apperances all day.
Sadly most of the "sheep" just pay the ticket & allow the local parasites to extort money from them.
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Excellent Bill!
You should put those notes in the form a printable PDF on a website somewhere...
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This is Bush's fault!
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Elsewhere in the news...
There were FIVE accidents over the weekend, involving FOURTEEN vehicles, with TWO fatalities, and ALL accidents were caused by drivers exceeding a safe and prudent speed limit. You say take out the photo radar, and vote down budgets to put more officers on the streets, when time after time, it is you speeders that cause the carnage on the highways!
What really scrambles my eggs is that you don't view speeding as a problem until you have "that one" accident and become part of the problem, then rather than take responsibility, you take the coward's way out. This is America, admit nothing and get a good lawyer to get you off on a technicality. If that doesn't work, put on your saddest of sad faces and say, "I'm Soooooo sorry" and "I just...couldn't stop" and, (wiping a fake tear from your eye) "If I could have done ANYTHING to prevent this from happening..."
Personally, I'll support the photo radar and law enforcement over you fine scofflaws...
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a day without accidents.. never heard of such a thing , even after cameras . it still happends..and the two fatalities were in a dust storm . get your facts right.
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Let's hold the elected officials who voted for these scams accountable for their misdeeds in the next election.
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Makes you think how may mistakes they have made already.
www.camerafrud.com
To help get rid of these speed trap money makers.
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Typical. What a waste of time and resources. He should sue for harrassment.
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#44, Liz, yes, the two fatalities were in a dust storm, caused by a driver that exceeded a safe and reasonable speed limit. The point here is that speeders cause accidents all the time, yet all I here on the comment boards is "Take the cameras out." No society should have to put up with 37,000 fatalities a YEAR caused mostly by people who break the law! Speeders "think" they are good drivers just because they haven't had "that accident" yet. In reality, speeders who have not had an accident are just surrounded by enough good drivers to make up for the speeder's bad driving.
Sooo, come up with a better plan! Find a way to stop speeders from destroying thousands of lives a year, and I'm sure you'll have society's full support to remove the photo radar. But if you can't come up with anything better, deal with the consequences!
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#43
"Personally, I'll support the photo radar and law enforcement over you fine scofflaws..."
Bet you'll just roll over when they start tapping your phone without your knowledge, intercepting your online travels, or putting CC cameras in every public location so they can keep an eye on your contacts and shopping habits - all in the name of "protecting us" of course, right?
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#49, Well, after serving in the military for over 22 years, and working as a civilian contractor for the Air Force for 10 years, I'd say I doubt it. I've been hearing about "1984" since...well...1984! I am not as concerned about that as I am from seeing friends turned into veggies by speeders, drunk drivers, texters, and the like. Call me irresponsible, but nothing can prepare you for a preventable accident that snuffs a loved one. Ask me how I know that...
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The video of a citation at a red light or speed cam can sometimes disprove the still camera shot.
My daughter in law was cited at Oracle and River while making a left turn on the green arrow.
The video clearly shows that her car had already passed over that stupid white line while the yellow light was still on
It took some effort to get the proof. The DivX video player link that ATS (private company) provides only works with windows vista. I had to find and download a version that worked with windows XP.
They want you to presume that you are guilty just like they unconstitutionally do.
Always check the video. It can be freeze framed at 1/15th second intervals.
If you appear to already be over that white line while the yellow is still on, take a digital picture of your video screen.
The underground sensors under the line aren't reliable because they are simple metal detectors.
The amount plastic and thin sheet metal in the front of modern cars varies from vehicle to vehicle.
Again we have a failure to provide equal justice under the law.
BTW The judge had to dismiss the citation even though the still picture made her look guilty.
The video of the incident can come in handy. On the other hand why do the video cameras run 24-7???
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We need a public vote on this issue. That should settle it, and keep a watchful eye on the law makers, the loan sharks are trying to circumvent our recent vote to throw them out of the state..!!!
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Robert E -if you were doing " about 5 over " then you WERE speeding.
But I am still glad you beat it. Arizona has squeezed us hard enough then squandered every cent.
Az has caused major dangers with the cameras causing the sudden braking. It's only a matter of time before it's serious . They Don't care at all what the citizens of this state want say or vote for. Only the beaurocracy with money in this state gets a say anyway.
Speeding doesn't cause collisions. Tailgating and inattention do.
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Speeding doesn't cause collisions. Tailgating and inattention do.
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#50, not sure what your time in the military and as a civilian contractor has to do with invasion of privacy and the increasing encroachment on our private lives by agencies public and private.
#1. When I am accused of a crime (i.e. speeding) and I get a ticket in the mail weeks or months after the infraction, nothing was done at the time of the infraction to cause me to change my behavior nor to slow down. #2 The camera takes my picture, generates funds for a city, county, or state entity and I never get to face the accuser, even if I go to court since the camera caught me, not an officer of the law.
#3 To reiterate, red light cameras and speed trap cameras do absolutely nothing to curb traffic accidents, injuries or fatalities. Statistical information is skewed to support the claims of those benefiting from the revenue generating cameras. If I run a red light and a camera takes my picture, that does not stop an accident from happening nor will it stop injuries or deaths should an accident happen. It can not, will not, can not stop accidents from happening!!!! Until statistics are compiled at alternate traffic routes that people take to avoid red light cameras, the statistics used by proponents of revenue generating cameras if invalid!!!! If I am doing 100 mph on a freeway and one (or more) of the dozen or so permanent or portable speed cameras one encounters between Phoenix and Quartzite gets my picture, they have not changed my poor driving practices nor have they prevented accidents or deaths. Why? Because I can see the cameras in the distance and slow down to get past them and then speed up as I get past them. This creates the additional hazard of people hitting their brakes on a two lane freeway at 70-80 mph to scrub speed quickly and setting up the possibility of rear-enders at speed.
#49, if you don't believe 1984 is gaining ground on us, you have been living in a cave. Your life, in electronic format, is available to anyone with a few dollars . . .
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The old saying "speed kills" is complete nonsense. Lousy drivers are what kills.
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I find those N Joy AZ plates annoying - so, I'd say this is Kharma for old Jay.
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I have heard that unless being physically served your ticket within 6 months of the citation, than the ticket and fine are dropped.
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Bill 48 if we have 37000 fatalities per year, we have 37000 drivers that have caused accidents.
So you actually expect putting cameras on over 100 million drivers (thus transferring wealth from individuals to local governments) to directly cause a reduction in driving fatalities???
Because the overwhelming majority of Americans DO NOT make that leap-of-faith conclusion...
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If the county or state were serious about safety, they would work to get the lousy drivers off the road instead of just handing-out fines. Some of the worst drivers are the ones who can easily afford the fines. The guy who ran over me did so in a brand new Cadillac, and wasn't even given a field sobriety test or made to blow a breathalizer, despite causing me critical injuries. He was cited and ended-up paying a $100.00(or so)fine. This was not his first serious accident, either.
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#56, Point being, Military and civilian contractors have to undergo background and security checks, and their general lives are under much more scrutiny than the general public. A lot of people are willing to give up a few of their personal freedoms to ensure you have the right to complain about yours.
1984 might be gaining ground on us, especially with the advent of the electronic age, but it is not here yet, even after 30+ years! (I remember seing the play 1984 in the early 70's) And it might not happen until 2084, if then. Speeders killing people, however happened in the 70's, the 80's, the 90's, and so far this century in horrendous numbers. So, what should we devote our energy towards? Something that might happen...maybe...someday? Or something that happens for real everyday? If I said 37,000 people were jailed by the government mostly because of electronic evesdropping, you would be up in arms! Yet 37,000 people lost their lives last year, mostly due to speeders, and you can dismiss it without a second thought. Hailey's Comet might hit the earth next time through, should I worry about that too?
And, when a speed camera lights up, I guarantee that people notice! Not only the perps, but those around as well. They must be doing their intended purpose, why else would all the scofflaws screem so loudly about them?
One more thing, and I'll quit for a day. When you signed your driver's license, you agreed to a set of rules of the road as set forth. Now, drivers aren't sorry that they break the law (and their agreement), they are just sorry that they are caught. Sorry indeed!
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From a purely money-making standpoint, Robert 61, the government wants these people back on the roads so hopefully they can fine them again.
From there, dedicating police resources to them, then tying them up in courts, and finally incarcerating them - all leads to obscene growth in government, which is their major underlying objective.
And finally, since they cannot do all of the above to absolute perfection, they throw out their favorite "it's for our chidren's future" card and beg for yet another tax increase...
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Wow. Some of these comments are longer than the story. Why can't we all just
N Joy AZ?
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59. Comment by John J. (JohnjjohannaCats) — November 30,2009 @ 12:21PM
Ratings: -0 +1
""I have heard that unless being physically served your ticket within 6 months of the citation, than the ticket and fine are dropped.""
I don't know the time frame for local courts.
The private companies who have the camera contract also do the mailing and the physical serving
The court system presumes that you have been served.
I do know that after you have missed your court date your license will be automatically revoked without you being notified.
If you are stopped by law enforcement for any reason after that your vehicle will be impounded on the spot. And you will be cited for driving on a suspended liscense.
The only way you can get your vehicle out of the impound lot is to pay the citation fine (admit guilt). Then pay the driving on a suspended license fine.
By this time you are out about $800
dollars, points will be assessed against your liscense and your insurance company will be notified.
Even if you can prove that you never received the citation nor were ever served you can not get your money back without suing the city.
I have a friend whose citation was apparently sent to his deceased father's home. The company also claimed that he had been physically served at a vacant house
And yes he had placed a change of address with the DMV.
He went through two months of being bounced around about getting his money back.
He finally went to the City Managers Office and complained.
There was a thorough investigation and a court officer finally called him and told him The charges were dropped.
On the down side however he was told the only way to get his money back was to sue the city
I am encouraging him to go to small claims court and put a lien on city hall.
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Other new vistas in state government budget resolution: Legalized gambling and pot... ;^) -- cool site; Balkingpoints ; incredible satellite view of earth
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Once again, I will state, it is the Republicans who gave this to us, not the Democrats. We haven't controlled the legislature in a looong time, if ever in AZ.
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In Hawaii, the public got mad and threw out these illegal ticket money makers, band together AZ and show some people power.
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#65 (Thomas C.) - Thanks for the story. It is a shame to hear about the trouble your friend went through. Dealing with the city can be horrible.
I have a buddy who recieved a citation in the mail. He swore that he did not get a ticket and does not remember being snapped by cameras. But he recieved a ticket. He said that there is no way that he is paying the ticket.
After 6 months he chedked with DMV and the ticket had been dropped and he had nothing on his record.
Someone at DMV actually told him that unless he recieves and pays the fine that they would not know about.
He was never given a court date, never contacted by the private companie or DMV and therefore had NOTHING on his record after 6 months.
It seems as though, just as with the citations, that it depends on the processor and whether or not they are lazy or proactive.
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#51 - The camera will flash if you enter the intersection AFTER the red light is on. The white stop line IS NOT the beginning of the intersection ... something most people do not know. The intersection begins at a point beyond the white stop line ... where you would "intersect" with side traffic ... thus the word "intersection. If you draw line from the right hand curb of the road to your left to the right hand curb of the road to your right, this line would begin the intersection. And this point could be some distance from the white STOP line on some of the bigger intersections. Your daughter-in-law may have been past the white STOP line when it was yellow ... but it may have been red before she entered the "intersection." I'm not saying she was since I don't know ... just stating what could have occurred.
Knowledge about traffic laws can prevent accidents and traffic tickets. Another area that drivers seem to misunderstand is the HAWK lights. Also, school crossing zones are another area that is misunderstood.
And as for photo enforcement cameras on I-10, I driven past them many times and never have I seen an accident just past it nor experienced the "slow-down" by other drivers. There is plenty of warning prior for "speeders" to slow down ... IF they are paying attention.
Again, I say, obey the laws ... traffic and otherwise ... and you won't have problems.
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My front plate is: "Cruisin'66" Does this mean everyone living along the Mother Road will receive citations?
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And these cameras are a good idea because?
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"To protect and serve"
Remember when that meant something?...... Now we have "To collect and harass".
Law enforcement has become a joke in this country. The police are lazy and look for easy revenue instead of fighting real crime, as the danger factor is lower for busting kids for drinking and hiding outside bars waiting for that easy dui. than it is for say, rapists and home invaders who might shoot back at them. It is amazing how many dui's are handed out every year and how few car thieves are caught, oh but wait... to catch a car thief would require the police to actually work and not sit in their cars until something illegal happens in front of them.
Has anyone noticed that police are not the friends you tell your kids to trust and tell the truth too anymore?
Cops are being put in jail for crimes that used to be associated with hardened criminals on a regular basis.
For the majority, it has now become a country of "Fear the police they are not our friends", they work for the enemy...The city and state.
Cops are being killed on a weekly basis in this country (sometimes targeted) and I am finding it harder and harder to show compassion for the fallen, as few of our police are heroes anymore...and more are just criminals with badges and power hungry people taking advantage of a weakened society.
And they wonder why people mistrust the police.....
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#27, et.al. AZ should obey the law as well. Laws cut both ways - neither the citizen nor the state are allowed to break them.
In this case, and in every other photo case, unless the violator is served in person, the state is violating the law. Period.
Plenty of court decisions to back this up.
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Photo Radar is one thing. But $200-$300 dollars for a ticket? They can Kiss my A**!
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The camera van snapped a photo of the guy in front of me the other evening after dark. The light was so bright and dazzling it completely blinded me. Yeah, that camera sure helps with safety.
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When the photo radar cameras were first installed... The city swore up & down that it was for "safety only" & not to generate income.
If that is true {LOL}....
Then there should be no monetary fine at all to pay after receiving a ticket...
Mandatory traffic school should be the ONLY way to get the ticket cleared.
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70. Comment by Bruce T. (azd5blue) — November 30,2009 @ 2:47PM
Ratings: -2 +2
""#51 - The camera will flash if you enter the intersection AFTER the red light is on. The white stop line IS NOT the beginning of the intersection ... something most people do not know.""
I wasn't referring to the white line near the crosswalk. I was indeed referring to the the white line you mention.
Oddly the line only exists in front of the two left turn lanes. Most of the citations are issued to people making left turns on the green arrow.
A left turn on the green arrow is the safest maneuver a driver can make at an intersection.
Why are these vehicles targeted in the name of safety??
That line is where the sensors are located and it is a different distance out at every intersection. It may be a different distances out at two opposite sides of the same intersection.
Using the engineering point of entry into the the intersection as the legal point of entry into an intersection was obviously done with the intention of confusing people.
The legal point of entry into an intersection for citation purposes had always been the crosswalk and was used traditionally by law enforcement.
That is not equal justice under the law.
People have always been taught not to stop on the crosswalk. Now all of a sudden it is OK to stop on the crosswalk.
That was a purely unethical psychological maneuver on the part of the city and the private company who tells the city what to do.
People are not psychics
The varied distance between the crosswalk and the sometimes painted imaginary line out in space somewhere is nothing but a very intentional scam zone.
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I think the comment (73) that cops are not our friends is cynical and grossly unfair. And to not show compassion for police who are killed in the line of duty is wrong in every imaginable way.
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79. Comment by Jay T. (jaytaylor) — November 30,2009 @ 5:06PM
Ratings: -0 +1
""I think the comment (73) that cops are not our friends is cynical and grossly unfair. And to not show compassion for police who are killed in the line of duty is wrong in every imaginable way.""
Your right Jay. What has hapened to us?
I grew up in a small town that had only five poice officers.
I was on a first name basis with all of them. I really miss those days.
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#70, the plane of the intersection begins at the point where a line stretched from curb to curb would cross the roadway.
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81 comments and no one has mentioned that there is no photo of the driver, which is one of the requirements for issuing a ticket.
I think the story is a hoax intended to rile everyone up.
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Re #82, the citation I got has two photos at the bottom. One is of the driver and one is his FRONT license plate NJOY AZ. By the way, I don't flatly disapprove of cameras or other safety enforcement tools that will reduce accidents and save lives.
Over the years my ad agency produced public service ad campaigns that raised the legal drinking age back to 21... and toughened Arizona's DUI laws...and changed our headlight laws, requiring lights to be turned on at sunset instead of a half hour after.
What I questioned is the yoyos running this camera speed enforcement thing who don't know what they're doing.
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83. Comment by Jay T. (jaytaylor) — November 30,2009 @ 6:00PM
""Over the years my ad agency produced public service ad campaigns that raised the legal drinking age back to 21... and toughened Arizona's DUI laws...and changed our headlight laws, requiring lights to be turned on at sunset instead of a half hour after.""
That is a good example of the common sense approach in making laws.
Everyone knows when the sun is going down. Few people could keep track of the half hour later part:)
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In case folks don't remember:
JAY TALOR
http://azstarnet.com/sn/accent/225126
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Still wondering, is plate picture shown illegal?
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Due to the fact we have cameras trying to enforce rules of the road, there are no cops out there. We just traveled from Illinois to Tucson, and only saw 2...yes only 2 police cars the whole way. Yet for the most part most drivers were following the speed limit of 75. There are always a few breakers. We did not see any cameras on the highways until Arizona. Also, my son got a photo ticket in the mail, the address listed as the offense road does not even exist, he was 5 over the limit and the ticket was $211 !! That's flippin' highway robbery! Before he could even respond to it, a process server showed up at the door and issued his ticket in person. When he went to the city court to pay his ticket they tacked on and extra $35 for the server!@!! So just getting the ticket isn't enough for the city...they have to find ways to make more money off you.
I cannot WAIT to move the heck out of this town!!
Lousy schools, no jobs, high cost of living, high utilities, and high crime some of which is being perpurtrated by our own government. Sad really.
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OH...the process server showed up at the door one week, yes, only one week after the ticket was mailed.
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I recently received two tickets, picutres of two different women driving a rental car five days apart while I had the lease contract for that car. The tickets were issued in Tolleson and Tempe. I live in Tucson and was not even near those areas and had the rental car in my posession. I called to reach loss control (Southern Arizona) and request an investigation into double plates or swithched plates. They told me this happens all the time and to send in my i.d. and say it wasn't me. I did that and later received a summons to appear in Tempe court to prove the lady (clearly a different ethnicity) was not me. I went in person to the rental car company and requested action and requested physically to see the car that was on my contract. Finally, loss control (Phoenix) took action. The plates were switched on the two cars and I had to deal with photo enforcement issues as a result. It is in process as the rental car company is dealing with the courts. I hope this mistake is cleared without further action on my part. This would not have happened with a law enforcement officer issuing the ticket because the correct drivers would have been cited.
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These cameras are a joke another Tax, it will never end until communities instate zero sum budgets and cut the fat at every turn.
What a joke. turn out all of your county commissioners that allowed this fraud to come to be.
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ADS credit given! When are we going to take our government back? Vote out all R and D and try something else.
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Aaww, Mama!
(I can't believe none of you 91 commenters remember Jay Taylor and his TV ads back in the day!)
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92. Comment by Hari S. (Chewbaca) — November 30,2009 @ 9:13PM
Ratings: -0 +0
""Aaww, Mama!
(I can't believe none of you 91 commenters remember Jay Taylor and his TV ads back in the day!)""
You missed # 85.
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The cameras will continue until elected city leaders have their phones ringing off the hook with complaints.
Good to post here as a rallying point, but we must all raise HELL with elected city and state officials.
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Maybe if we had all these posters use thier computers to contact thier representives, It only takes minutes and request this be a ballot issue
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Watch the Sonora plates run the cameras daily - I think now they even smile and wave.
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so from a legal standpoint, do we "owe" this speeding ticket, or not?
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