The Tucson region craves consensus, information and fresh ideas on growth.
1. Comment by Jeffrey H. (flibber)— March 16,2008 @ 5:01AM
Ratings:-2+10
Talk about the link of esthetics to the quality of life, how come no one suggested razing trailer parks and banning junk autos?
First world countries don't worry about growth because population growth itself is stable or negative. Control immigration and growth won't be a problem.
4. Comment by Patty B. (desert krone)— March 16,2008 @ 5:53AM
Ratings:-3+8
I think, hopefully, what we got out of this forum is a possible move away from scraping the desert to put up single family homes 3 feet apart, with no green space. To me this is good. (Too late for Houghton Road though.)Does anyone think this is really happening, or is it just smoke and mirrors?
Maybe we would have more water resources if we eliminated commercial operations that use a lot of it, but do not contribute to local sustainability. Could we all get behind that? I read a comment the other day that the mine down by Green Valley uses a million gallons of water a day. Could we all get behind once again closing down this mining operation? I think there are also a lot of commercial operations NW of Tucson that are very heavy water users. Could we all get behind closing these down also?
I'm sure I distinctly heard one of the introductory speakers say that all of the audience questions would be answered in the Star today. Since there were about 600 people there, and I was generating about 10 questions a minute, I was wondering how it would be possible to answer all the questions in one issue of the Star. So I guess what he really meant to say was that the Star would start answering the questions on Sunday, 2 or 3 at a time. In other words, shut up and listen. Some dialogue.
5. Comment by Jeffrey H. (flibber)— March 16,2008 @ 5:58AM
Ratings:-2+11
PEOPLE VOTE WITH THEIR FEET
That cynical but accurate truism came out of the great demographic shifts of the 50s and 60s.
It's finally arriving in your neighborhood, Tucson. Flight to the suburbs, decaying inner city, failing schools, gangs and crime, poverty and welfare. Talk all you want but avoiding the fate of America's other cities will not be avoided by repeating the rhetoric and failed policies of the past. The rich will live in their gated communities with private guards or doormen and send their kids to private schools. The middle class will simply leave the city to rot, in search for the good suburban life. Tucson will have its "upper east side" and Greenwich Village." The rest will be ...
7. Comment by ralfie 1. (ralfie12)— March 16,2008 @ 7:27AM
Ratings:-1+6
Let's talk about the Pantano Corridor again. (circa 1967) That might be a good idea to study. We could build it in 2075, long after all of us are dead. But 100 years would give them time to fund the study.
8. Comment by Gary H. (#6099)— March 16,2008 @ 8:18AM
Ratings:-7+6
You are all gonna be drinking sewer water before you know it. Your neighbors will live about three feet away from you. The night sky will succumb to that lovely orange color you folks are so proud of(saving the night sky) and spanish is gonna be the FIRST language. The OLD PUEBLO has now become the NEW CUIDAD. You folks have given up your culture to the immigrants from down south. Too bad. I love tacos and Mexican food but you folks have opened the flood gates. I guess the end will come when the Presidente' of Mexico makes a deal with AZ governor.....don't hassle my newcomers and I won't hassle your student partiers. A tidy arrangement. In the meantime.....we are getting higher taxes because of the hospital visits.... and just wait til HILLARY or OBAMA raises your taxes to further support these invaders. McCain...while not the best.....is a far cry better than what is being offered by the Dems.
9. Comment by Anne G. (#3990)— March 16,2008 @ 8:59AM
Ratings:-2+14
"The Tucson region craves consensus, information and fresh ideas on growth." Unfortunately, Ann, from many of the comments today and yesterday on the Growth Forum, the conclusion may be that you are out of touch with your readers. The three out-of-town speakers didn't do their homework on Tucson and our problems before coming up with examples of other cities that "have done a good job". Models can't be based simply on similar population figures.
As Patty#4 mentions, it was very much a "shut up and listen" event. At the end everyone on the panel was singing Kumbaya but nothing was accomplished. The forum should have been opened to the audience the last hour for questions and comments from the audience. No, not everyone's question would be addressed, but I would have learned a whole lot more and not gone away with the feeling that the forum was a waste of time.
10. Comment by Mariyah M. (IDIDIT)— March 16,2008 @ 11:04AM
Ratings:-3+5
So how come so many posters said that
there was no discussion? Only watered
down questions? They are not serious a-
bout doing something good or needed. Get
the illegals and the building/car dealer
/council,etc. out of the picture, and we
would find a way that is good.
11. Comment by J. R. (Justine R)— March 16,2008 @ 3:48PM
Ratings:-3+3
If the Snyder Road Bridge was put in the quality of life would be better for a lot of people. It's another example of a few rich NIMBYS and the city council ignoring what is best for the majority.
12. Comment by CR T. (crtee)— March 16,2008 @ 5:30PM
Ratings:-1+2
I thought that the conference was a good start. Its good to get the benefit of new ideas and other cities experiences even if the speakers were a little too much Phoenix and California centered.
I just don't know what the next step is for us. How did Portland and Sacramento begin to move their planning beyond just more of the same?
13. Comment by Don I. (Donald Ijams)— March 17,2008 @ 5:00AM
Ratings:-0+1
It looks like our best bet for next steps is to mine the presentation materials for nuggets that can lead to places where the Star can shine a continuing light. I look forward to going through the materials, asking myself how various points can be translated to Tucson's scene.
I wonder what can be learned from cities other than Portland and Sacramento who tried the visioning process? Why weren't they successful?
14. Comment by Jay M. (annavas)— March 21,2008 @ 6:35PM
Ratings:-1+1
The Forum was the usual blah, blah, blah about the future of Tucson. The usual exercise that will go nowhere. The unscientific survey was of little value with different individuals completeting different parts of the survey.
It would seem most useful that the recent studies by Treo, Leadership Group and several others of recent exercise be collated and find the common themes.
What is needed is "guts" to take action and stop pandering to all the miniscule and sundry groups and neighborhoods and rebuild the community. Light rail might make sense with vertical building and infill using the inefficient large lots that make up many blocks of old east central Tucson.
As to building on the outskirts of Tucson, the decades old satillite city concept should be visited by county planners and required of developers. Any new development would come with totally planned commercial and employment centers that have jobs that will allow the residents to work, play and live in new complete small towns.
We've added a feature to the comments pages - the ability to easily add paragraph breaks, boldface type and a few other typographical aids to your comments. Launch toolbar
Use single or double carriage returns to put line breaks or paragraph breaks in your comments.
At the same time, we removed the ability to put HTML coding into the comments. People were misusing that feature by pulling in cartoons, photos and other copyrighted materials from publications elsewhere. We won't allow you to use our pages to violate other publications' copyrights.
We've added a story to the site that includes a few tips to resolve common problems. You can use the comment thread attached to that story for practice and testing of the markup tools: Go to story | Go to the practice thread
General Instructions
Welcome to the story comments section of StarNet. Here are some helpful hints with you:
You must be logged in to comment or rate comments. Log in or create an account through our registration system.
All comments are subject to our guidelines (listed below) and our user agreement.
Comment Reporting
You can report other users' comments that are in violation of the StarNet User Guidelines. Users are limited to three (3) reports per day and are not allowed to report their own comments.
Any comment that has been reported will be moderated by StarNet. The comment will either be approved or rejected. Approval or rejection is based solely on the StarNet User Guidelines. Comments are only able to be reported once and are not viewable while awaiting moderation.
If you are a registered site user and are logged in, you can vote thumbs up or thumbs down on the comments.
The total votes of approval and disapproval on that comment will be updated when you vote — including your vote and any other votes that have been cast since your browser last loaded this page.
Votes by users who have been banned from commenting don't count in the totals.
User Guidelines
We welcome your comments on articles, editorials, columns, other topics on StarNet or any subjects important to you. Commentary submitted to StarNet (www.azstarnet.com) may be published or distributed in print, electronically or other forms. Opinions expressed in www.azstarnet.com's comments reflect the opinions of the author, and are not necessarily the opinions of the Star, StarNet, or its parent company. See terms of service for more information.
Our guidelines prohibit the solicitation of products or services, the impersonation of another site user, threatening or harassing postings and the use of vulgar, abusive, obscene or sexually oriented language, defamatory or illegal material. You may not post content that degrades others on the basis of gender, race, class, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual preference, disability or other classification. It's fine to criticize ideas, but ad hominem attacks are prohibited. Users who violate those standards may lose their privileges on azstarnet.com.
Don't violate other publications' copyrights.
Do we edit user comments? No. The writers are responsible for the opinions they express and the accuracy of the information they provide. StarNet reserves the right to remove comments that violate our guidelines policy.
Growth forum showed need for consensus
The Tucson region craves consensus, information and fresh ideas on growth.Talk about the link of esthetics to the quality of life, how come no one suggested razing trailer parks and banning junk autos?
First world countries don't worry about growth because population growth itself is stable or negative. Control immigration and growth won't be a problem.
Report this comment
Whatever happened to PORTLAND, OR?
Did Tucson just wham, bam, than you wam to that lovely city?
That's not the way to treat a lady.
Report this comment
Might I add the term
Tucson growth
Is confusing, those are two words that just don't mix.
Much like
AZ Star Truth
Report this comment
I think, hopefully, what we got out of this forum is a possible move away from scraping the desert to put up single family homes 3 feet apart, with no green space. To me this is good. (Too late for Houghton Road though.)Does anyone think this is really happening, or is it just smoke and mirrors?
Maybe we would have more water resources if we eliminated commercial operations that use a lot of it, but do not contribute to local sustainability. Could we all get behind that? I read a comment the other day that the mine down by Green Valley uses a million gallons of water a day. Could we all get behind once again closing down this mining operation? I think there are also a lot of commercial operations NW of Tucson that are very heavy water users. Could we all get behind closing these down also?
I'm sure I distinctly heard one of the introductory speakers say that all of the audience questions would be answered in the Star today. Since there were about 600 people there, and I was generating about 10 questions a minute, I was wondering how it would be possible to answer all the questions in one issue of the Star. So I guess what he really meant to say was that the Star would start answering the questions on Sunday, 2 or 3 at a time. In other words, shut up and listen. Some dialogue.
Report this comment
PEOPLE VOTE WITH THEIR FEET
That cynical but accurate truism came out of the great demographic shifts of the 50s and 60s.
It's finally arriving in your neighborhood, Tucson. Flight to the suburbs, decaying inner city, failing schools, gangs and crime, poverty and welfare. Talk all you want but avoiding the fate of America's other cities will not be avoided by repeating the rhetoric and failed policies of the past. The rich will live in their gated communities with private guards or doormen and send their kids to private schools. The middle class will simply leave the city to rot, in search for the good suburban life. Tucson will have its "upper east side" and Greenwich Village." The rest will be ...
Report this comment
The growth forum was just another talk session, no action forthcoming.
Waste of time.
Report this comment
Let's talk about the Pantano Corridor again. (circa 1967) That might be a good idea to study. We could build it in 2075, long after all of us are dead. But 100 years would give them time to fund the study.
Report this comment
You are all gonna be drinking sewer water before you know it. Your neighbors will live about three feet away from you. The night sky will succumb to that lovely orange color you folks are so proud of(saving the night sky) and spanish is gonna be the FIRST language. The OLD PUEBLO has now become the NEW CUIDAD. You folks have given up your culture to the immigrants from down south. Too bad. I love tacos and Mexican food but you folks have opened the flood gates. I guess the end will come when the Presidente' of Mexico makes a deal with AZ governor.....don't hassle my newcomers and I won't hassle your student partiers. A tidy arrangement. In the meantime.....we are getting higher taxes because of the hospital visits.... and just wait til HILLARY or OBAMA raises your taxes to further support these invaders. McCain...while not the best.....is a far cry better than what is being offered by the Dems.
Report this comment
"The Tucson region craves consensus, information and fresh ideas on growth." Unfortunately, Ann, from many of the comments today and yesterday on the Growth Forum, the conclusion may be that you are out of touch with your readers. The three out-of-town speakers didn't do their homework on Tucson and our problems before coming up with examples of other cities that "have done a good job". Models can't be based simply on similar population figures.
As Patty#4 mentions, it was very much a "shut up and listen" event. At the end everyone on the panel was singing Kumbaya but nothing was accomplished. The forum should have been opened to the audience the last hour for questions and comments from the audience. No, not everyone's question would be addressed, but I would have learned a whole lot more and not gone away with the feeling that the forum was a waste of time.
Report this comment
So how come so many posters said that
there was no discussion? Only watered
down questions? They are not serious a-
bout doing something good or needed. Get
the illegals and the building/car dealer
/council,etc. out of the picture, and we
would find a way that is good.
Report this comment
If the Snyder Road Bridge was put in the quality of life would be better for a lot of people. It's another example of a few rich NIMBYS and the city council ignoring what is best for the majority.
Report this comment
I thought that the conference was a good start. Its good to get the benefit of new ideas and other cities experiences even if the speakers were a little too much Phoenix and California centered.
I just don't know what the next step is for us. How did Portland and Sacramento begin to move their planning beyond just more of the same?
Report this comment
It looks like our best bet for next steps is to mine the presentation materials for nuggets that can lead to places where the Star can shine a continuing light. I look forward to going through the materials, asking myself how various points can be translated to Tucson's scene.
I wonder what can be learned from cities other than Portland and Sacramento who tried the visioning process? Why weren't they successful?
Report this comment
The Forum was the usual blah, blah, blah about the future of Tucson. The usual exercise that will go nowhere. The unscientific survey was of little value with different individuals completeting different parts of the survey.
It would seem most useful that the recent studies by Treo, Leadership Group and several others of recent exercise be collated and find the common themes.
What is needed is "guts" to take action and stop pandering to all the miniscule and sundry groups and neighborhoods and rebuild the community. Light rail might make sense with vertical building and infill using the inefficient large lots that make up many blocks of old east central Tucson.
As to building on the outskirts of Tucson, the decades old satillite city concept should be visited by county planners and required of developers. Any new development would come with totally planned commercial and employment centers that have jobs that will allow the residents to work, play and live in new complete small towns.
Report this comment
Whatever happened to Robert Moses ?
Report this comment