These were the statements on the House floor this week from Southern Arizona's two congressional members, Democrats Raúl Grijalva and Gabrielle Giffords.
1. Comment by Harry D. (Dog Dude (Blue heeler))— February 17,2007 @ 5:48AM
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Grijalva:
This resolution does not demoralize our troops or embolden the insurgents.
and how would Grijalva know that? Is he in contact with Osama? Grijalva thinks telling the enemy we no long have the guts to fight him is NOT emboldening that enemy?
This resolution offers hope to our troops that an end is in sight and that their elected representatives are not passing on their authority regarding the most important issue confronting our nation today.
BS. This tells the troops most of who believe in their mission and themselves that all is lost and what they have strived for, suffered for will be flushed down the tubes.
I believe this resolution should have teeth we must send a message that binds all of us to real action, an unflinching message of opposition to the escalation and a message of support for our troops. Today marks a step in that direction.
In other words Grijalva wants to cut the funding to your sons and daughters who have put their lives on the line to fight and win the war. This is treason because it gives aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war.
I said I would not belabor the question of who is to blame, but I must address the obvious:
a lie... clearly that IS what this very dishonest man is doing.
bq. Weapons of mass destruction None Found
A lie.."DEULFER":http://mediamatters.org/items/200606230008
bq. Sarin agent decays, you know, at a certain rate, as does mustard agent. What we found, both as U.N. and later when I was with the Iraq Survey Group, is that some of these rounds would have highly degraded agent, but it is still dangerous. You know, it can be a local hazard. If an insurgent got it and wanted to create a local hazard, it could be exploded. When I was running the ISG -- the Iraq Survey Group -- we had a couple of them that had been turned in to these IEDs, the improvised explosive devices. But they are local hazards. They are not a major, you know, weapon of mass destruction.
So now it's they are old and not a major WMD.
When Grijalva says "None Found ", it's a lie. Bush never said "new" WMD's. If you got caught with a old machine gun, would it being old help you out?
Of course not.
Links of Iraq to 911 didn't exist
this is another big lie perpetrated on the American people by Bush haters.
Bush never said Iraq was connected to 911..
Misspent funds in Iraq Ignored .
pulling at straws, and it's not been "ignored".
Mission Accomplished premature political propaganda
Wrong again. The Mission was to remove Saddam, that mission was "Accomplished" so again Grijalva is regurgitating MoveOn lies.
bq. Strategy for Iraq Non-Existent
Another big lie, the "strategy may or may not have been the best but it does "exist"
So why is Grijalva lying to you so much?
Because he is a Bush hating democrat who is trying to sabotage the war and our troops.
Another big fat lie intended to fool the gullable.
So we have war experts Giffords and Grijalva trying hard to sabotage the war and our brave hero's mission all out of hatred for Bush, they are giving aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war.
1) That Iraq was in material breach of the ceasefire terms presented under the terms of Resolution 687. Iraq's breaches related not only to Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs), but also the known construction of prohibited types of missiles, the purchase and import of prohibited armaments, and the continuing refusal of Iraq to compensate Kuwait for the widespread looting conducted by its troops in 1991.
2) That 1441, and its deadline, represented Iraq's final opportunity to comply with disarmament requirements. In accordance with the previous Resolutions, this meant Iraq not only had to verify the existence or destruction of its remaining unaccounted-for WMD stockpiles, but also had to ensure that all equipment, plans, and materials useful for the resumption of WMD programs was likewise turned over or verified as destroyed.
3) That "...false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq’s obligations".
snip
On November 8, 2002, the UN passed Resolution 1441 urging Iraq to disarm or face "serious consequences". The resolution passed with a 15 to 0 vote, supported by Russia, China and France, and Arab countries like Syria. This gave this resolution wider support than even the 1990 Gulf War resolution. Although the Iraqi parliament voted against honoring the UN resolution, Iraqi President Saddam Hussein agreed to honor it.
Why is Grijalva and so many Democrats lying to you about all this?
Do they think you are to stupid to see how they lie?
3. Comment by Scott B. (scoot)— February 17,2007 @ 6:36AM
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Why do Bush and so many Republicans continue to lie about this:
"Although we have not found stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, we were right to go into Iraq." - GWB White House press conference with Bush and Blair
Q One question for you both. Do you believe that there is a link between Saddam Hussein, a direct link, and the men who attacked on September the 11th?
4. Comment by Joe B. (joeb)— February 17,2007 @ 6:53AM
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I recall the debates some four years ago, the bantering about whether the American public would have the stomach if the war dragged on. That was back when people still drove around with flags on their cars.
In today's culture of microwave popcorn and drive thru hamburgers, we are an impatient bunch. We, as a country, lack the fortitude that has made our country great. We want it now, and prefer to punt on third down because we're tired.
While I used to consider myself a republican, I reel at the thought of the democrat agenda. We as a country (at least the half who bothered to vote), nevertheless chose a different priority. I don't agree with that priority, but respect the will of the majority. I just wish the geniouses that have the 'better idea' also had some preserverance and remembered one of their favority sons...
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we will pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and success of freedom. - John F. Kennedy 1961.
5. Comment by Scott B. (scoot)— February 17,2007 @ 6:56AM
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Tim Ryan from OH nailed it;
"We never called the other side unpatriotic, when they sent our soldiers over without enough body armor. And when they didn't send enough up-armored Humvees, we never called anybody unpatriotic. And now when the next batch goes over without enough jammers, or up-armored kits, we won't call you unpatriotic.
Now let me speak to the resolution. This is very simple. It says two things. We support our troops and we do not support escalation. It's very simple. And here's why.
We have already done this. Mr. Speaker; we've already done this, we've already tried the escalation, and it HAS. NOT. WORKED. From November to January '05, we escalated by 18,000 troops, boots on the ground, and the number of daily attacks increased by 17%. From June to October of '05, we increased by 21,000 boots on the ground, and the number of dialy attacks increased by 29%. And from May to November of '06, 17,000 more boots on the ground, and the number of daily attacks increased by 80%.
This escalation has not worked, and it will not work. The number of insurgents has increased from 5,000 in '03 to between 20,000 and 30,000 in October '06.
But with this escalation, Mr. Speaker, we know that the 21,500 troops that are going to go over there will not have the proper Humvee kits, up-armor for their Humvees, they won't have the proper jamming devices or enough of them, and the won't have have the number of trucks that they need. Period, dot. You now know it.
So if you vote against this resolution, you're voting to send our troops over there without the proper equipment."
6. Comment by Harry D. (Dog Dude (Blue heeler))— February 17,2007 @ 6:59AM
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Thanks Scott 3
That's what I pointed out
Q One question for you both. Do you believe that there is a link between Saddam Hussein, a direct link, and the men who attacked on September the 11th?
THE PRESIDENT: I can't make that claim.
So why did Grijalva list this...
Links of Iraq to 911 didn't exist
Because he is so dishonest he thinks he will fool you into thinking Bush lied and said was a link between Iraq and 911 even tho Bush never said any such thing.
What the Democrats are doing is giving aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war.
Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.
The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.
This agenda by Grijalva is getting more or the sons a daughters of Americans killed.
All because the Democrats hate Bush for daring to win against the best the DNC could muster, twice.
8. Comment by Joe B. (joeb)— February 17,2007 @ 7:28AM
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Scott B #5
I understand your point. I agree that the increments that have been sent did not solve the problem. OK, so now what?
I taught a course on "Theory and Conduct of War" to senior staff and officers while in the Marine Corps. One of the key aspects that the american people have a real hard time with is the concept that warfare should be conducted with extreme violence and prejudice against your enemy. Considering the nature of the current theatre of operations, the force we have committed is barely enough to play patty-cake.
I won't pretend to understand why we sent 21,000 on Oct. 05. I would guess, however, that if 200,000 were sent back then, the conversation today would be different.
The escalations we send are like putting a band-aid on a sucking chest wound. If we do not want to be quitters and concede that a bunch of fanatics can run us off, then we should make the decision to win.
Unfortunately, I don't see the current sentiment in this country wanting to win. For those of you that fought in WWII, my thanks. Your generation remembers being attacked. Your generation remembers coming to the aid of your European friends against Germany (who did not attack us first). Your generation mustered million man armies and perservered. We have much to learn by remembering such things. Today, we sort-of field a force, don't want to fire up the draft, undercommit, overexpect, and cry when it takes too long.
9. Comment by inboundhunter .. (inboundhunter)— February 17,2007 @ 7:39AM
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Gabby says, send money not troops. I say, let the United States send Iraq a few million Illegals, who are willing to do the jobs Iraqs citizens do not wish to do.
10. Comment by Kathy S. (#4593)— February 17,2007 @ 8:02AM
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Raúl Grijalva and Gabrielle Giffords = These are the same two politicians I see BLASTED by the majority of posters on a regular basis. 'G & G Co.' have not changed one bit, it's those who now SUPPORT them... ON THIS ISSUE, who have changed. People should remember, a skunk NEVER changes it's stripe, it will always stink the same. Remember where these two stand when the issue is local and affects you where you live? What they stand for on a national level is NO different, it just affects a lot more people.
11. Comment by Scott B. (scoot)— February 17,2007 @ 8:03AM
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Joe B-
I think the reason public opinion has turned against continued occupying of Iraq is because the administration has consistently overpromised and under-delivered and the people have realized that the longer we have stayed in Iraq, the worse things have gotten, despite claims of last throes and so on.
So now what? I think we should let Iraq set their own political course instead of one we dictate to them. Which will probably result in Shia rule with stronger Iraqi ties to Iran. And we will just have to live with them the way we live with other powers that we don't always get along with and recognize their power (see Russia, China etc)
12. Comment by Joe B. (joeb)— February 17,2007 @ 8:04AM
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inboundhunter #9
That's an interesting twist on the proposed "Guest Worker Program". Hmmm... a new fast-track towards citizenship. One tour in Iraq- get a green card, two tours- get permanent residency, three tours- get citizenship. Of course, an illegal could opt-out and get deported instead and have all assets siezed and sold off to help fund the war.
13. Comment by Joe B. (joeb)— February 17,2007 @ 8:20AM
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Scott B #11.
I agree, we as a nation (collectively, we hired these guys) overpromised and undercommitted. I felt back then, that we should have gone in with many more people to begin with.
Perhaps it is time to open public debate on whether such actions should be taken without the congress passing an act of war. I see the congress having a lack of courage to do this. The last articles of war was in WWII. We seem to have diverted down a path where the congress wants to give limited hall passes with strings attached.
If congress had passed articles of war, fired up the draft, and resolved that we were in to win, I would think the President might have considered a far more agressive war without trying to do it on a shoestring.
I was invited to the Desert Storm party in '91. The coalition had some, what, 450,000 on the ground? This time around, we are in Iraq (a lot more territory), with a third of the force and scratch our head asking what's wrong.
Why did the congress abdicate their role and responsibility under the constitution to declare war.
We all call it a war. The military has a "Global War on Terror" medal. The congress uses the word war in their debate, but they have not called it a war through the passage of Articles of War.
15. Comment by Peter K. (Sweet Pete)— February 17,2007 @ 8:35AM
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The House and Senate need to pass these resolutions. They speak for the people and the people are sick of the Bush Admin. lies and tricks. Our boys (and girls) over there right now are in a Turkey Shoot, and they're the turkeys. It's time to bring them home. The people spoke in November and it's high time congress listen to the people and stand against Bush and FOR the benifit of the troops. Nutcase Bush would like nothing more than for the US to be "locked in" to Iraq for another 5 to 10 years, so he and his his croanies can keep their cash registers ringing!
17. Comment by Joe B. (joeb)— February 17,2007 @ 8:45AM
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Chris,
Frankly, I didn't LIKE any of them. The fact is, there will always be international differences of opinion that give rise to passion and sentiment that drives people to violence against each other.
We should always be prepared to fight, to win and do so with honor.We should be prepared, with all our resources to fight with swift and extreme violence when necessary. It is that which brings the conflicts to their end as quickly as possible.
Protraction did not work in Vietnam, and it is not working here.
18. Comment by Chris M. (leftfield)— February 17,2007 @ 9:00AM
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I favor the model of most of the rest of the world: Don't start wars in the first place.
The sad truth is, since the end of WWII and the beginning of the Cold War, America has been exporting, directly and by proxy, murder and mayhem all over the globe to further American hegemony. If there is any good to come out of Iraq, it will be that the people of America lose their stomach for war altogether.
19. Comment by Jorge J. (ghostflower)— February 17,2007 @ 9:10AM
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I stumbled onto the military blog site sort of by accident. Even though the webpage title is: "Doonesbury-The Sandbox-Military Blog, Milblogs for Military Families," it belies the earth shattering Current war truths.
http://gocomics.typepad.com/the_sandbox/
PLEASE VISIT THIS WEBPAGE, AND SCROLL DOWN TO THIS ARTICLE FOR STARTERS:
GOT THEM IP BLUES
Name: SGT Roy Batty
Posting date: 1/30/07
Stationed in: Baghdad, Iraq
Hometown: Yellow Springs, Ohio
The article IS MUCH, MUCH MORE THAN IT APPEARS TO BE IN THE OPENING PARAGRAPHS.
PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE.
If your opinion on what is occurring in Iraq isn't changed or shaken, you need some reality counseling.
There are also additional insightful, and tragic stories on this webpage, and I hope most of you will find the time to read them all, as difficult as it is to read about some of the horror and tragedy.
21. Comment by Jorge J. (ghostflower)— February 17,2007 @ 9:18AM
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One of you complete knee-jerk jerks already gave me a thumbs down, so I know you didn't bother reading the article noted, and it's just more stupid, blind hate being administered in the form of a thumb's down.
Who ever you folks are (for I know there are more than one of you who hate me for not agreeing with your every word), grow up, at the very least.
It's ignorant people like you and Bush, who don't have the courage to face reality to effect needed change, and send America back to the better path we once followed, for you folks are just going to lead us to hell.
23. Comment by Kevin B. (#2218)— February 17,2007 @ 9:22AM
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9. Comment by inboundhunter
"Gabby says, send money not troops. I say, let the United States send Iraq a few million Illegals, who are willing to do the jobs Iraqs citizens do not wish to do."
It'll never work. The insurgents will just find some "La Migra" uniforms and our conscripts will scatter like ****roaches.
But maybe then the Shiites and Sunnis can unite around a common problem: how to send the undocumented troops back where they came from.
24. Comment by J J. (gearhead34)— February 17,2007 @ 9:26AM
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Grijalva and Giffords are right in step with all dems, speaking just like them, all saying the same thing. They have not mind of their own, especailly Giffords. She is such a complete idiot, so much so that I feel sorry for her. Neither one are patriots, neither one represent what built this country, rather what is destroying it. Those that voted for the jackasses will get what you deserve, it is just a shame that those of us that love this country will get it too.
I want someone to ask Gabby when she is going to build all those solar farms? When is she going to realize all the promises that she made, that she probably knew that she could not deliver. both these reps need to step down. They are an embarasement to this great country.
25. Comment by J J. (gearhead34)— February 17,2007 @ 9:29AM
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Maybe Gabby is willing to send some of her money. What a nasty person she is. She has no clue what she is doing, no clue. You vote for fools, you get fools.
27. Comment by J J. (gearhead34)— February 17,2007 @ 9:32AM
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Hey Jorge, you want to put your mouth where your fist is. It is people like you that make me what to meet you in a dark alley and bloody your lip. You are a coward, and anti-American. Go live in France, maybe then you will appreciate what conservatives have done for you, which is defend this counrty your you pathetic life.
28. Comment by Ralph K. (beatasuaolcom)— February 17,2007 @ 9:35AM
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Gabby said - Instead of sending 21,000 more young American soldiers to Iraq as part of his same failed strategy, the president should focus on the global war on terrorism.
That's what I've been saying for years. Take the troops in Iraq and go avenge 9/11 by finding Bin Laden and as many of his allies as possible.
I voted for Gabby and this is the message I wanted sent to Washington. Go Gabby Go.
29. Comment by Kevin B. (#2218)— February 17,2007 @ 9:36AM
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18. Comment by Chris M. (leftfield)
"The sad truth is, since the end of WWII and the beginning of the Cold War, America has been exporting, directly and by proxy, murder and mayhem all over the globe to further American hegemony."
That statement could have been lifted from any speech by Saddam, Chavez, Castro, or Bin Laden. Doesn't that thought make you consider even a little whether you are over the top or are being maybe just a teeny-weeny bit unpatriotic ?
30. Comment by Jorge J. (ghostflower)— February 17,2007 @ 9:54AM
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Hey, Gear-less head 34, thanks for proving my points in your post # 27.
You are the American-Taliban, the non-patriot, the dictator-wanna-be of all other's thoughts and actions (you know -- how the Taliban controlled every citizen in Afghanistan with fear, brutal force, and destruction of all freedoms, especially freedom of speech).
How "un-American" is it to want to beat someone up for having an opinion that upsets you!
Poor baby.
AND YOU HAVE TO BE AN IGNORANT JERK TO INFER ONLY CONSERVATIVES DEFEND THIS COUNTRY, OR HAVE DIED IN WAR TO PROTECT US. I'm assuming, you mean "Republicans," and no Democrats have fought and died for their county. How sick are you?
YOU NEED SOME SERIOUS COUNSELING.
How dare you threaten me with physical violence for expressing my opinion -- apparently very accurately when it comes to your character.
You're the coward, for being so afraid of other people's opinions.
I'm guessing you'd rather kill me than just fatten and bloody my lip, for having an opinion.
I'm not a coward, but I wouldn't be stupid enough to come face to face intentionally with you at anytime.
You're a walking time bomb, just looking for an excuse to kill or seriously hurt someone.
32. Comment by Joe B. (joeb)— February 17,2007 @ 10:34AM
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Children, please!! Too bad that what can start as a mature dialogue reflecting differing viewpoints eventually digresses into name calling and wanting to throw fists.
We sit here and decry our government's inabilities. We are intolerant of our government officials lapsing into posturing, namecalling and impotence in power. Yet, a growing portion of the popultaion seems to be falling into tantrums and nonsensical diatribes on both sides of the issues.
Grow up.
If you have a point of view, express it meaningfully. Better yet, don't be one of the 50% who don't bother to vote and then sit back and whine.
33. Comment by Joan T. (roaxle)— February 17,2007 @ 10:44AM
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8. Joe B. (joeb) says:
The escalations we send are like putting a band-aid on a sucking chest wound. If we do not want to be quitters and concede that a bunch of fanatics can run us off, then we should make the decision to win.
Except that we don't have enough troops to win. Gen. Schoomaker says we're already overtaxed, overcommitted; the lean mean fighting machine has become a little too lean.
34. Comment by Joan T. (roaxle)— February 17,2007 @ 10:45AM
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Jorge,
I followed your link. Here is one interesting quote:
There are friends of mine, here on this deployment, who have been home with their families for 18 months out of the past four years, due to almost constant rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan.
35. Comment by Joe B. (joeb)— February 17,2007 @ 10:47AM
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Joan T.,
That is precisely one of my points. Before we jumped in, Congress should have passed articles of war, started the draft, etc. I don't know how our responsible officials could have possibly imagined that we were headed into a global conflict without stepping up to the plate.
36. Comment by Chris M. (leftfield)— February 17,2007 @ 11:18AM
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#29 Kevin R.
It could have been lifted from the people of Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Chile, Iran, Ecuador, Vietnam, Indonesia, Haiti, The Congo, or any other of the dozens of countries who have had the "benefit" of our military interventions.
37. Comment by Kevin B. (#2218)— February 17,2007 @ 11:36AM
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#36 Chris M.
The view that America is a murderous, imperialistic blight on the world may fly in some quarters, but I can assure at least 90% of Americans believe we use our power with good intentions to achieve moral outcomes.
I think most of us also understand that having and keeping great power comes with obligations to use it, but use it wisely. There are plenty of other nations that would love to fill our shoes if we step down as the world's sole superpower.
40. Comment by Dezrtwulf C. (Dezrtwulf)— February 17,2007 @ 12:07PM
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25. Comment by J J. (gearhead34) —
"You vote for fools, you get fools."
This is exactly what I was telling the people who planned to vote for George of the Bungle back in '04 but of course they didn't listen. And now we have the biggest fool God ever saw fit to let breathe running the most powerful nation on earth. It's like putting a child behind the wheel of a semi and telling them to do what they want with it. Once they figured out how to start that big rig, many people ended up dying.
I don't know what everyone is talking about here because it's all a moot point now. The Senate Republcians refused to allow the vote today. End of story. It's official. America has the largest collection of pussies ever assembled in that great chamber.
The republicans should be ashamed they are too pussified to allow a vote, and the democrats should be ashamed they are talking so much sh*t about something that has absolutely no teeth to it as though it is so godd**ned "meaningful"."But it is the beginning of future debates..." my ass! If you're against this war then by God take some Godd**n ACTION and get them out of there! You think the troops don't know what the hell is going on back here? You think they don't know that their fearless leaders that "want them out of harms way" so much are to pussifed to vote on something that will actually ALLOW them to leave?? Yo bet your a** they do!
Frickin' COWARDS in the senate make me sick!!!!!!!
41. Comment by R C. (wsucoug)— February 17,2007 @ 12:34PM
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I like the term White Flag Democrat.
BTW the fact that Giffords voted yes is a slap in the face of our service men/women here in the district. Pathetic to say the least. I am proud I did not vote for her. TD away White Flags!
42. Comment by Dezrtwulf C. (Dezrtwulf)— February 17,2007 @ 12:42PM
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41. Comment by R C. (wsucoug) —
So what do you call the 17 republican senators who voted with the dems this morning? Why don't you call your man Sen. Hagel, ® Nebraska and Viet Nam vet, who said, "This president is instgating the biggest miliitary blunder since Viet Nam", a "white flag democrat"? Then we can all watch and see how long it takes you to pick up your teeth off the ground.
45. Comment by brian h. (#5479)— February 17,2007 @ 12:53PM
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Grijalva and Giffords are an embarrasment, one can tell they are Tucsonans. I can't wait till Phoenix creeps all the way down I-10 to Tucson, maybe then we can take back control of this state.
46. Comment by R C. (wsucoug)— February 17,2007 @ 12:58PM
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Sen. Hagel, ® Nebraska and Viet Nam vet, who said, "This president is instgating the biggest miliitary blunder since Viet Nam", a "white flag democrat"? Then we can all watch and see how long it takes you to pick up your teeth off the ground.
Hagel is going to kick my arse? Wow. I was thinkin' maybe Giffords was going to. Are you a White Flag?
47. Comment by Jorge J. (ghostflower)— February 17,2007 @ 1:04PM
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#34, Commentator Joan T. (roaxle) —
Thanks for taking the time to check out the posted link.
I hope you will also scroll down (it down quite a ways) to the story I mentioned in my first post, because the soldier in Iraq shares what is really happening there.
I hope even people that dislike me will look up this website, for it's OUR SOLDIER'S OWN WORDS/POSTS -- nothing to do with me, or any one point of view.
Our soldier's in war are pouring their hearts out over the Internet for all to see, instead of just letters to home that had to suffice before the Internet.
It's a long article, and as I mentioned, the first half of his email does not indicate his revealing insight into the current, failing management of the Iraq War.
There are other 'combat' emails, where soldier's share the tragedy of war, and other experiences/preceptions.
Here's the information again, and some of the other email titles to look up on this webpage. You have to scroll quite a bit to find them.
http://gocomics.typepad.com/the_sandbox/
PLEASE VISIT THIS WEBPAGE, AND SCROLL DOWN TO THIS ARTICLE FOR STARTERS:
GOT THEM IP BLUES
Name: SGT Roy Batty
Posting date: 1/30/07
Stationed in: Baghdad, Iraq
Hometown: Yellow Springs, Ohio
Halfway through this soldier's email is when the important truths are exposed.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Other emails (blogs by U.S. soldiers, that open your eyes):
DECENCY AND HONOR
Name: CAPT B. Tupper
Posting date: 1/29/07
Stationed in: Ghazni, Afghanistan
Milblog url: www.myspace.com/42094372
PIECES IN THE SNOW
Name: CPT B. Tupper
Posting date: 1/22/07
Stationed in: Afghanistan
Hometown: Syracuse, NY
Milblog url: www.myspace.com/42094372
50. Comment by R C. (wsucoug)— February 17,2007 @ 2:29PM
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Nope. Just a 100% disabled vet.
Then thank you for your service to our country. I mean that sincerely.
I disagree with you about the resolution obviously. And I still stand by my opinion of the democrats.
Ask yourself this: How would you feel, if you were in the middle of the jungle fighting your rear-end off, and a simular resolution was passed? Please do not tell me you would feel good about it and uplifted because that would be a lie.
The Democrats are giving aid and comfort to the enemy. It is that simple. I am just as fustrated with the war as many people, but I want us to win. This resolution is absolutely no help. Also, I will decline to go to your Bush hating website.
53. Comment by Patrick B. (Pat Bishop)— February 17,2007 @ 3:12PM
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The best military advice available was given before the Iraq war ever began. That advice was ignored and now we are in a mess. So what to do? There isn't a hell of a lot we can do without a masssive infusion of several hundreds of thousands of soldiers, and that is not going to happen.
I'm willing to take President Bush at his word...Mission Accomplished....tell the Iraqis our timeframe for their independence ...live with it and take responsibility for your country.
At best, the Iraqi police are corrupt and incompetent. At worse, they are one big criminal gang, and outright insurgents to boot.
I keep reading news reports that talk about how the Mehdi Army has "infiltrated" the Ministry of the Interior and all of the police agencies. "Infiltrate" is such an evocative word, bringing to mind images of dark clad guerillas scaling chain link fences in the middle of the night. That simply isn't the case. These guys have not surreptitiously snuck into the MOI. They are not hiding, or operating clandestinely, whispering quietly to each other in secret meetings after work. They've been outright hired by their buddies, particularly after the Shia gained control of the Iraqi government. Every IP station I have been in has Shia and Mahdi Army propaganda posters openly displayed inside it. They are not working to bring down the system. They are the system.
This is the government we are trying to shore up. Our children are dying for this.
55. Comment by Jorge J. (ghostflower)— February 17,2007 @ 5:55PM
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#54, Commentator Joan T. (roaxle),
Thank you for your blog post from the website. The more posted elsewhere the better for our troops.
I hope more people will be inspired to visit this website, to understand what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan, direct from the soldier's fighting these wars themselves.
I wish these blogs were being printed on the front page of every major newspaper in the United States, at least one a week. It would open more eyes to the truth.
56. Comment by inboundhunter .. (inboundhunter)— February 17,2007 @ 7:11PM
Ratings:-0+0
For those of you, meaning the Townhouse type, that think this War will end in Iraq the moment our combat soldiers leave, well guess again, aint going to happen. This is a Religious War, Christians against Islam, this is what the Radical Islamic Clerics teach, and they will not stop when we leave, this aint no Video war Game!! The Middle Eastern Countrys are connected by one element ISLAM, Christians are not tolerated period. Just try and raise a Christian flag in Iraq, Iran, the Sudan or Somalia or Afghanistan, will never happen. The Pope, the great Catholic disgrace,he is even fearful of Islam and that is a fact!! This War is now not political, it is now a Crusade, Islam against Christians, Jews and the countrys they live in. The Iraqi citizens that are going to be found out as Colaberators, friendlys towards the Christian US, will be killed by the radical Muslim cult when we leave, this will indeed be the worst American ****up ever.
57. Comment by Pam C. (Pam C)— February 17,2007 @ 7:18PM
Ratings:-0+0
"There are friends of mine, here on this deployment, who have been home with their families for 18 months out of the past four years, due to almost constant rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan."
That is their JOB - sorry to say it but 18 months out of four years means 30 months in - that isn't such a bad tour of duty during a WAR.
Giffords and Grijalva are a mess for representatives - it's like watching little kids act up to get the big kids to pay attention - they parrot what they hear so they'll fit in. A non-story - a bigger deal would be for them to have actually supported a surge considering DM is a huge employer in Tucson. This was a waste of newsprint - the Jr. Represntative that talked to a few people over a few months knows more than people who have been involved and the Representative from Mexico of course opposes anything that smacks of being supportive of America.
We got who you all voted for but they still represent all of us and contrary to what some of you believe not all of us thing non-binding resolutions during a war are a good idea. The Commander in Chief is the only one who can make those decisions for a reason.
Watch the true story about Blackhawk Down in Somalia if you think these sorts of things don't make a difference. We lost in Vietnam because the public was too involved and the politicians got scared - we won in WWII because the Commander in Chief made tough decisions. Can you imagine someone named Gabby making the decision to drop the bomb on not one but two cities?
The House and Senate should be setting up ways to ensure that the troups continue to get support rather than undermining then.
58. Comment by Pam C. (Pam C)— February 17,2007 @ 7:18PM
Ratings:-0+0
"There are friends of mine, here on this deployment, who have been home with their families for 18 months out of the past four years, due to almost constant rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan."
That is their JOB - sorry to say it but 18 months out of four years means 30 months in - that isn't such a bad tour of duty during a WAR.
Giffords and Grijalva are a mess for representatives - it's like watching little kids act up to get the big kids to pay attention - they parrot what they hear so they'll fit in. A non-story - a bigger deal would be for them to have actually supported a surge considering DM is a huge employer in Tucson. This was a waste of newsprint - the Jr. Represntative that talked to a few people over a few months knows more than people who have been involved and the Representative from Mexico of course opposes anything that smacks of being supportive of America.
We got who you all voted for but they still represent all of us and contrary to what some of you believe not all of us thing non-binding resolutions during a war are a good idea. The Commander in Chief is the only one who can make those decisions for a reason.
Watch the true story about Blackhawk Down in Somalia if you think these sorts of things don't make a difference. We lost in Vietnam because the public was too involved and the politicians got scared - we won in WWII because the Commander in Chief made tough decisions. Can you imagine someone named Gabby making the decision to drop the bomb on not one but two cities?
The House and Senate should be setting up ways to ensure that the troups continue to get support rather than undermining then.
61. Comment by inboundhunter .. (inboundhunter)— February 17,2007 @ 7:42PM
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Comment # 58,Pam we won WW2 because our country had no choice but to win. Iraq only affects a soldiers life, and their familys life, never affects the normal US citizens life!
62. Comment by inboundhunter .. (inboundhunter)— February 17,2007 @ 7:49PM
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Comment #60, The taken care of crowd, only knows what happens in the world Via their TV set. Trusts one political party, Go team Go type, No sweat or blood invovled type, Another words, they never ever get their own weak fingers involved.
63. Comment by Dezrtwulf C. (Dezrtwulf)— February 17,2007 @ 7:59PM
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56. Comment by inboundhunter ..
58. Comment by Pam C. -
"We lost in Vietnam because the public was too involved and the politicians got scared"
That is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. We aren't MEANT to win every war, sweetheart. Especially when you go in and try to take over a country that has been fighting off occupier-wanna-bes like us for over 1,000 years! You can't just FORCE a goddamn country to bend to our will becaue we are the big, bad, "United States of America".
We ONLY won WW2 because it was a righteous war. And we, and the rest of the world, were frickin RIGHT to fight it!
We win wars that are MEANT to be won and the ones that it is RIGHT to win. I don't care if we are invading Hawaii. If the cause isn't "just" and we are just plain WRONG for fighting it, then we are going to LOSE! Plain and simple! There is a helluva lot more to winning a war than being the "United States".
And if you think after losing 58,000 troops that continuing to fight that stupid ass war was justified and losing another 58,000 troops was worth it, you are out of your mind! Just ask someone who was there. Except Nightstalker.In his opinion there has never been a war that we have ever fought that we shouldn't have been in.
That is because he's actually fought in every war going back to the Indian wars of the middle 1700's that America has ever fought, He also fought in the Civil War, for the south.
64. Comment by Dezrtwulf C. (Dezrtwulf)— February 17,2007 @ 8:03PM
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56. Comment by inboundhunter ..
Never finished this one. Do you honestly think most Americans give a sh*t about what happens to Iraq after we leave? Most Americans are only concerned with us getting our asses out of that losing proposition. Let Bush take the blame for his stupid war.
We are more interested, even to this day, about going into Afganistan and finishing what we should have finished 5 years ago.
65. Comment by inboundhunter .. (inboundhunter)— February 17,2007 @ 8:12PM
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Wow Wulf, the Margaritas are attacking, I give a ****, I always complete what I START! Afghanistan, is owned by Packyland, which is owned by Drug Companys in The United States of America. **** blame, Absolution is better!
66. Comment by Dezrtwulf C. (Dezrtwulf)— February 17,2007 @ 8:26PM
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Let me guess, you think "love means never having to say you're sorry" and that starting a war in the wrong country against the better judgment of the majority of our people as well as our generals and experts means, "never having to say we fu*ked up", so, "let's just keep fighting because what the hell, we're already there aren't we?".
This is the only reason for continuing to fight this dumbass (another in a series) war.
67. Comment by inboundhunter .. (inboundhunter)— February 17,2007 @ 8:30PM
Ratings:-0+0
Comment 66 , We are of the same Generation, What Goes around Comes Around, Guess what we will be out flanked!! Winning is everything, Ask the Cats Fans!!! Luck only goes so far.
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Statements by Democrats Raúl Grijalva and Gabrielle Giffords on House measure on Iraq
These were the statements on the House floor this week from Southern Arizona's two congressional members, Democrats Raúl Grijalva and Gabrielle Giffords.Grijalva:
and how would Grijalva know that? Is he in contact with Osama? Grijalva thinks telling the enemy we no long have the guts to fight him is NOT emboldening that enemy?
BS. This tells the troops most of who believe in their mission and themselves that all is lost and what they have strived for, suffered for will be flushed down the tubes.
In other words Grijalva wants to cut the funding to your sons and daughters who have put their lives on the line to fight and win the war. This is treason because it gives aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war.
a lie... clearly that IS what this very dishonest man is doing.
bq. Weapons of mass destruction None Found
A lie.."DEULFER":http://mediamatters.org/items/200606230008
bq. Sarin agent decays, you know, at a certain rate, as does mustard agent. What we found, both as U.N. and later when I was with the Iraq Survey Group, is that some of these rounds would have highly degraded agent, but it is still dangerous. You know, it can be a local hazard. If an insurgent got it and wanted to create a local hazard, it could be exploded. When I was running the ISG -- the Iraq Survey Group -- we had a couple of them that had been turned in to these IEDs, the improvised explosive devices. But they are local hazards. They are not a major, you know, weapon of mass destruction.
So now it's they are old and not a major WMD.
When Grijalva says "None Found ", it's a lie. Bush never said "new" WMD's. If you got caught with a old machine gun, would it being old help you out?
Of course not.
this is another big lie perpetrated on the American people by Bush haters.
Bush never said Iraq was connected to 911..
pulling at straws, and it's not been "ignored".
Wrong again. The Mission was to remove Saddam, that mission was "Accomplished" so again Grijalva is regurgitating MoveOn lies.
bq. Strategy for Iraq Non-Existent
Another big lie, the "strategy may or may not have been the best but it does "exist"
So why is Grijalva lying to you so much?
Because he is a Bush hating democrat who is trying to sabotage the war and our troops.
Another big fat lie intended to fool the gullable.
So we have war experts Giffords and Grijalva trying hard to sabotage the war and our brave hero's mission all out of hatred for Bush, they are giving aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war.
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More on WMD's and the lies
Saddam was required under the cease fire agreement to account for and destroy his WMDs.
He clearly did not do this.
Saddam played games with Charles Duelfer and the inspectors who are now in denial over how fooled they were.
Resolution 1441 specifically stated
snip
Why is Grijalva and so many Democrats lying to you about all this?
Do they think you are to stupid to see how they lie?
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Why do Bush and so many Republicans continue to lie about this:
"Although we have not found stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, we were right to go into Iraq." - GWB
White House press conference with Bush and Blair
Q One question for you both. Do you believe that there is a link between Saddam Hussein, a direct link, and the men who attacked on September the 11th?
THE PRESIDENT: I can't make that claim.
THE PRIME MINISTER: That answers your question.
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I recall the debates some four years ago, the bantering about whether the American public would have the stomach if the war dragged on. That was back when people still drove around with flags on their cars.
In today's culture of microwave popcorn and drive thru hamburgers, we are an impatient bunch. We, as a country, lack the fortitude that has made our country great. We want it now, and prefer to punt on third down because we're tired.
While I used to consider myself a republican, I reel at the thought of the democrat agenda. We as a country (at least the half who bothered to vote), nevertheless chose a different priority. I don't agree with that priority, but respect the will of the majority. I just wish the geniouses that have the 'better idea' also had some preserverance and remembered one of their favority sons...
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we will pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and success of freedom. - John F. Kennedy 1961.
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Tim Ryan from OH nailed it;
"We never called the other side unpatriotic, when they sent our soldiers over without enough body armor. And when they didn't send enough up-armored Humvees, we never called anybody unpatriotic. And now when the next batch goes over without enough jammers, or up-armored kits, we won't call you unpatriotic.
Now let me speak to the resolution. This is very simple. It says two things. We support our troops and we do not support escalation. It's very simple. And here's why.
We have already done this. Mr. Speaker; we've already done this, we've already tried the escalation, and it HAS. NOT. WORKED. From November to January '05, we escalated by 18,000 troops, boots on the ground, and the number of daily attacks increased by 17%. From June to October of '05, we increased by 21,000 boots on the ground, and the number of dialy attacks increased by 29%. And from May to November of '06, 17,000 more boots on the ground, and the number of daily attacks increased by 80%.
This escalation has not worked, and it will not work. The number of insurgents has increased from 5,000 in '03 to between 20,000 and 30,000 in October '06.
But with this escalation, Mr. Speaker, we know that the 21,500 troops that are going to go over there will not have the proper Humvee kits, up-armor for their Humvees, they won't have the proper jamming devices or enough of them, and the won't have have the number of trucks that they need. Period, dot. You now know it.
So if you vote against this resolution, you're voting to send our troops over there without the proper equipment."
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Thanks Scott 3
That's what I pointed out
So why did Grijalva list this...
Because he is so dishonest he thinks he will fool you into thinking Bush lied and said was a link between Iraq and 911 even tho Bush never said any such thing.
What the Democrats are doing is giving aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war.
Look up the definition of treason
This agenda by Grijalva is getting more or the sons a daughters of Americans killed.
All because the Democrats hate Bush for daring to win against the best the DNC could muster, twice.
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This article is about one blind traitor leading another blind traitor.
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Scott B #5
I understand your point. I agree that the increments that have been sent did not solve the problem. OK, so now what?
I taught a course on "Theory and Conduct of War" to senior staff and officers while in the Marine Corps. One of the key aspects that the american people have a real hard time with is the concept that warfare should be conducted with extreme violence and prejudice against your enemy. Considering the nature of the current theatre of operations, the force we have committed is barely enough to play patty-cake.
I won't pretend to understand why we sent 21,000 on Oct. 05. I would guess, however, that if 200,000 were sent back then, the conversation today would be different.
The escalations we send are like putting a band-aid on a sucking chest wound. If we do not want to be quitters and concede that a bunch of fanatics can run us off, then we should make the decision to win.
Unfortunately, I don't see the current sentiment in this country wanting to win. For those of you that fought in WWII, my thanks. Your generation remembers being attacked. Your generation remembers coming to the aid of your European friends against Germany (who did not attack us first). Your generation mustered million man armies and perservered. We have much to learn by remembering such things. Today, we sort-of field a force, don't want to fire up the draft, undercommit, overexpect, and cry when it takes too long.
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Gabby says, send money not troops. I say, let the United States send Iraq a few million Illegals, who are willing to do the jobs Iraqs citizens do not wish to do.
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Raúl Grijalva and Gabrielle Giffords = These are the same two politicians I see BLASTED by the majority of posters on a regular basis. 'G & G Co.' have not changed one bit, it's those who now SUPPORT them... ON THIS ISSUE, who have changed. People should remember, a skunk NEVER changes it's stripe, it will always stink the same. Remember where these two stand when the issue is local and affects you where you live? What they stand for on a national level is NO different, it just affects a lot more people.
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Joe B-
I think the reason public opinion has turned against continued occupying of Iraq is because the administration has consistently overpromised and under-delivered and the people have realized that the longer we have stayed in Iraq, the worse things have gotten, despite claims of last throes and so on.
So now what? I think we should let Iraq set their own political course instead of one we dictate to them. Which will probably result in Shia rule with stronger Iraqi ties to Iran. And we will just have to live with them the way we live with other powers that we don't always get along with and recognize their power (see Russia, China etc)
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inboundhunter #9
That's an interesting twist on the proposed "Guest Worker Program". Hmmm... a new fast-track towards citizenship. One tour in Iraq- get a green card, two tours- get permanent residency, three tours- get citizenship. Of course, an illegal could opt-out and get deported instead and have all assets siezed and sold off to help fund the war.
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Scott B #11.
I agree, we as a nation (collectively, we hired these guys) overpromised and undercommitted. I felt back then, that we should have gone in with many more people to begin with.
Perhaps it is time to open public debate on whether such actions should be taken without the congress passing an act of war. I see the congress having a lack of courage to do this. The last articles of war was in WWII. We seem to have diverted down a path where the congress wants to give limited hall passes with strings attached.
If congress had passed articles of war, fired up the draft, and resolved that we were in to win, I would think the President might have considered a far more agressive war without trying to do it on a shoestring.
I was invited to the Desert Storm party in '91. The coalition had some, what, 450,000 on the ground? This time around, we are in Iraq (a lot more territory), with a third of the force and scratch our head asking what's wrong.
Why did the congress abdicate their role and responsibility under the constitution to declare war.
We all call it a war. The military has a "Global War on Terror" medal. The congress uses the word war in their debate, but they have not called it a war through the passage of Articles of War.
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Though they voted the same way, the differences between these two politicians are very evident.
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The House and Senate need to pass these resolutions. They speak for the people and the people are sick of the Bush Admin. lies and tricks. Our boys (and girls) over there right now are in a Turkey Shoot, and they're the turkeys. It's time to bring them home. The people spoke in November and it's high time congress listen to the people and stand against Bush and FOR the benifit of the troops. Nutcase Bush would like nothing more than for the US to be "locked in" to Iraq for another 5 to 10 years, so he and his his croanies can keep their cash registers ringing!
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Question for some of the posters on this page: Have you ever met a US war you didn't like?
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Chris,
Frankly, I didn't LIKE any of them. The fact is, there will always be international differences of opinion that give rise to passion and sentiment that drives people to violence against each other.
We should always be prepared to fight, to win and do so with honor.We should be prepared, with all our resources to fight with swift and extreme violence when necessary. It is that which brings the conflicts to their end as quickly as possible.
Protraction did not work in Vietnam, and it is not working here.
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I favor the model of most of the rest of the world: Don't start wars in the first place.
The sad truth is, since the end of WWII and the beginning of the Cold War, America has been exporting, directly and by proxy, murder and mayhem all over the globe to further American hegemony. If there is any good to come out of Iraq, it will be that the people of America lose their stomach for war altogether.
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I stumbled onto the military blog site sort of by accident. Even though the webpage title is: "Doonesbury-The Sandbox-Military Blog, Milblogs for Military Families," it belies the earth shattering Current war truths.
http://gocomics.typepad.com/the_sandbox/
PLEASE VISIT THIS WEBPAGE, AND SCROLL DOWN TO THIS ARTICLE FOR STARTERS:
GOT THEM IP BLUES
Name: SGT Roy Batty
Posting date: 1/30/07
Stationed in: Baghdad, Iraq
Hometown: Yellow Springs, Ohio
The article IS MUCH, MUCH MORE THAN IT APPEARS TO BE IN THE OPENING PARAGRAPHS.
PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE.
If your opinion on what is occurring in Iraq isn't changed or shaken, you need some reality counseling.
There are also additional insightful, and tragic stories on this webpage, and I hope most of you will find the time to read them all, as difficult as it is to read about some of the horror and tragedy.
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Chris M # 16 I certainly didn't like when we invaded Haiti to install a Communist dictator who oppressed the people and eventually fled.
Gifford's main idea is to let Iran handle things in Iraq, only this time she says "neighbors."
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One of you complete knee-jerk jerks already gave me a thumbs down, so I know you didn't bother reading the article noted, and it's just more stupid, blind hate being administered in the form of a thumb's down.
Who ever you folks are (for I know there are more than one of you who hate me for not agreeing with your every word), grow up, at the very least.
It's ignorant people like you and Bush, who don't have the courage to face reality to effect needed change, and send America back to the better path we once followed, for you folks are just going to lead us to hell.
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You can lead ignorant diatribes to meaningful stories by our Soldier's in War, but you can't get them to read or comprehend.
Ignorance is bliss, but our soldier's in battle don't have this chosen luxury.
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9. Comment by inboundhunter
"Gabby says, send money not troops. I say, let the United States send Iraq a few million Illegals, who are willing to do the jobs Iraqs citizens do not wish to do."
It'll never work. The insurgents will just find some "La Migra" uniforms and our conscripts will scatter like ****roaches.
But maybe then the Shiites and Sunnis can unite around a common problem: how to send the undocumented troops back where they came from.
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Grijalva and Giffords are right in step with all dems, speaking just like them, all saying the same thing. They have not mind of their own, especailly Giffords. She is such a complete idiot, so much so that I feel sorry for her. Neither one are patriots, neither one represent what built this country, rather what is destroying it. Those that voted for the jackasses will get what you deserve, it is just a shame that those of us that love this country will get it too.
I want someone to ask Gabby when she is going to build all those solar farms? When is she going to realize all the promises that she made, that she probably knew that she could not deliver. both these reps need to step down. They are an embarasement to this great country.
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Maybe Gabby is willing to send some of her money. What a nasty person she is. She has no clue what she is doing, no clue. You vote for fools, you get fools.
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Most everyone forgets we should not have gone ther in the first place.
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Hey Jorge, you want to put your mouth where your fist is. It is people like you that make me what to meet you in a dark alley and bloody your lip. You are a coward, and anti-American. Go live in France, maybe then you will appreciate what conservatives have done for you, which is defend this counrty your you pathetic life.
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Gabby said - Instead of sending 21,000 more young American soldiers to Iraq as part of his same failed strategy, the president should focus on the global war on terrorism.
That's what I've been saying for years. Take the troops in Iraq and go avenge 9/11 by finding Bin Laden and as many of his allies as possible.
I voted for Gabby and this is the message I wanted sent to Washington. Go Gabby Go.
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18. Comment by Chris M. (leftfield)
"The sad truth is, since the end of WWII and the beginning of the Cold War, America has been exporting, directly and by proxy, murder and mayhem all over the globe to further American hegemony."
That statement could have been lifted from any speech by Saddam, Chavez, Castro, or Bin Laden. Doesn't that thought make you consider even a little whether you are over the top or are being maybe just a teeny-weeny bit unpatriotic ?
Oops, I said the "U" word, here come the TD's.
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Hey, Gear-less head 34, thanks for proving my points in your post # 27.
You are the American-Taliban, the non-patriot, the dictator-wanna-be of all other's thoughts and actions (you know -- how the Taliban controlled every citizen in Afghanistan with fear, brutal force, and destruction of all freedoms, especially freedom of speech).
How "un-American" is it to want to beat someone up for having an opinion that upsets you!
Poor baby.
AND YOU HAVE TO BE AN IGNORANT JERK TO INFER ONLY CONSERVATIVES DEFEND THIS COUNTRY, OR HAVE DIED IN WAR TO PROTECT US. I'm assuming, you mean "Republicans," and no Democrats have fought and died for their county. How sick are you?
YOU NEED SOME SERIOUS COUNSELING.
How dare you threaten me with physical violence for expressing my opinion -- apparently very accurately when it comes to your character.
You're the coward, for being so afraid of other people's opinions.
I'm guessing you'd rather kill me than just fatten and bloody my lip, for having an opinion.
I'm not a coward, but I wouldn't be stupid enough to come face to face intentionally with you at anytime.
You're a walking time bomb, just looking for an excuse to kill or seriously hurt someone.
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...Grijalva and Giffords, what a pair...
...Seymour and DoLess...
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Children, please!! Too bad that what can start as a mature dialogue reflecting differing viewpoints eventually digresses into name calling and wanting to throw fists.
We sit here and decry our government's inabilities. We are intolerant of our government officials lapsing into posturing, namecalling and impotence in power. Yet, a growing portion of the popultaion seems to be falling into tantrums and nonsensical diatribes on both sides of the issues.
Grow up.
If you have a point of view, express it meaningfully. Better yet, don't be one of the 50% who don't bother to vote and then sit back and whine.
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8. Joe B. (joeb) says:
The escalations we send are like putting a band-aid on a sucking chest wound. If we do not want to be quitters and concede that a bunch of fanatics can run us off, then we should make the decision to win.
Except that we don't have enough troops to win. Gen. Schoomaker says we're already overtaxed, overcommitted; the lean mean fighting machine has become a little too lean.
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Jorge,
I followed your link. Here is one interesting quote:
There are friends of mine, here on this deployment, who have been home with their families for 18 months out of the past four years, due to almost constant rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Joan T.,
That is precisely one of my points. Before we jumped in, Congress should have passed articles of war, started the draft, etc. I don't know how our responsible officials could have possibly imagined that we were headed into a global conflict without stepping up to the plate.
So, how do we fix it?
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#29 Kevin R.
It could have been lifted from the people of Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Chile, Iran, Ecuador, Vietnam, Indonesia, Haiti, The Congo, or any other of the dozens of countries who have had the "benefit" of our military interventions.
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#36 Chris M.
The view that America is a murderous, imperialistic blight on the world may fly in some quarters, but I can assure at least 90% of Americans believe we use our power with good intentions to achieve moral outcomes.
I think most of us also understand that having and keeping great power comes with obligations to use it, but use it wisely. There are plenty of other nations that would love to fill our shoes if we step down as the world's sole superpower.
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"The view that America is a murderous, imperialistic blight on the world" is, unfortunately, becoming more widespread every day.
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#38 Chris M.
"'The view that America is a murderous, imperialistic blight on the world' is, unfortunately, becoming more widespread every day."
Chris, why won't you respond to my points instead of just repeating the charge?
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25. Comment by J J. (gearhead34) —
"You vote for fools, you get fools."
This is exactly what I was telling the people who planned to vote for George of the Bungle back in '04 but of course they didn't listen. And now we have the biggest fool God ever saw fit to let breathe running the most powerful nation on earth. It's like putting a child behind the wheel of a semi and telling them to do what they want with it. Once they figured out how to start that big rig, many people ended up dying.
I don't know what everyone is talking about here because it's all a moot point now. The Senate Republcians refused to allow the vote today. End of story. It's official. America has the largest collection of pussies ever assembled in that great chamber.
The republicans should be ashamed they are too pussified to allow a vote, and the democrats should be ashamed they are talking so much sh*t about something that has absolutely no teeth to it as though it is so godd**ned "meaningful"."But it is the beginning of future debates..." my ass! If you're against this war then by God take some Godd**n ACTION and get them out of there! You think the troops don't know what the hell is going on back here? You think they don't know that their fearless leaders that "want them out of harms way" so much are to pussifed to vote on something that will actually ALLOW them to leave?? Yo bet your a** they do!
Frickin' COWARDS in the senate make me sick!!!!!!!
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I like the term White Flag Democrat.
BTW the fact that Giffords voted yes is a slap in the face of our service men/women here in the district. Pathetic to say the least. I am proud I did not vote for her. TD away White Flags!
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41. Comment by R C. (wsucoug) —
So what do you call the 17 republican senators who voted with the dems this morning? Why don't you call your man Sen. Hagel, ® Nebraska and Viet Nam vet, who said, "This president is instgating the biggest miliitary blunder since Viet Nam", a "white flag democrat"? Then we can all watch and see how long it takes you to pick up your teeth off the ground.
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So what do you call the 17 republican senators who voted with the dems this morning?
You have to ask that? White Flag Republicans.
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So what do you call the 17 republican senators who voted with the dems this morning?
Oh yea...and hopefully in two years...Out of a job.
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Grijalva and Giffords are an embarrasment, one can tell they are Tucsonans. I can't wait till Phoenix creeps all the way down I-10 to Tucson, maybe then we can take back control of this state.
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Sen. Hagel, ® Nebraska and Viet Nam vet, who said, "This president is instgating the biggest miliitary blunder since Viet Nam", a "white flag democrat"? Then we can all watch and see how long it takes you to pick up your teeth off the ground.
Hagel is going to kick my arse? Wow. I was thinkin' maybe Giffords was going to. Are you a White Flag?
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#34, Commentator Joan T. (roaxle) —
Thanks for taking the time to check out the posted link.
I hope you will also scroll down (it down quite a ways) to the story I mentioned in my first post, because the soldier in Iraq shares what is really happening there.
I hope even people that dislike me will look up this website, for it's OUR SOLDIER'S OWN WORDS/POSTS -- nothing to do with me, or any one point of view.
Our soldier's in war are pouring their hearts out over the Internet for all to see, instead of just letters to home that had to suffice before the Internet.
It's a long article, and as I mentioned, the first half of his email does not indicate his revealing insight into the current, failing management of the Iraq War.
There are other 'combat' emails, where soldier's share the tragedy of war, and other experiences/preceptions.
Here's the information again, and some of the other email titles to look up on this webpage. You have to scroll quite a bit to find them.
http://gocomics.typepad.com/the_sandbox/
PLEASE VISIT THIS WEBPAGE, AND SCROLL DOWN TO THIS ARTICLE FOR STARTERS:
GOT THEM IP BLUES
Name: SGT Roy Batty
Posting date: 1/30/07
Stationed in: Baghdad, Iraq
Hometown: Yellow Springs, Ohio
Halfway through this soldier's email is when the important truths are exposed.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Other emails (blogs by U.S. soldiers, that open your eyes):
DECENCY AND HONOR
Name: CAPT B. Tupper
Posting date: 1/29/07
Stationed in: Ghazni, Afghanistan
Milblog url: www.myspace.com/42094372
PIECES IN THE SNOW
Name: CPT B. Tupper
Posting date: 1/22/07
Stationed in: Afghanistan
Hometown: Syracuse, NY
Milblog url: www.myspace.com/42094372
GETTING SHOT AT
Name: B.C.
Posting date: 2/9/07
Stationed in: Afghanistan
Hometown: FLORIDA
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46. Comment by R C. (wsucoug) —
"Are you a White Flag?"
Nope. Just a 100% disabled vet.
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Check out this website:
AwolBush.com
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Nope. Just a 100% disabled vet.
Then thank you for your service to our country. I mean that sincerely.
I disagree with you about the resolution obviously. And I still stand by my opinion of the democrats.
Ask yourself this: How would you feel, if you were in the middle of the jungle fighting your rear-end off, and a simular resolution was passed? Please do not tell me you would feel good about it and uplifted because that would be a lie.
The Democrats are giving aid and comfort to the enemy. It is that simple. I am just as fustrated with the war as many people, but I want us to win. This resolution is absolutely no help. Also, I will decline to go to your Bush hating website.
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Comment # 48 Dezertwulf C, Was it a Car, Truck or Bus that ran over you? Your Comment 42 is on the money!!
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Comment # 40 Dezertwulf C, Affirmative
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The best military advice available was given before the Iraq war ever began. That advice was ignored and now we are in a mess. So what to do? There isn't a hell of a lot we can do without a masssive infusion of several hundreds of thousands of soldiers, and that is not going to happen.
I'm willing to take President Bush at his word...Mission Accomplished....tell the Iraqis our timeframe for their independence ...live with it and take responsibility for your country.
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Jorge,
I just got back from a UA Basketball wake and returned to your link. I couldn't help posting from one of the blogs:
From SGT Roy Batty stationed in Baghdad, Iraq
At best, the Iraqi police are corrupt and incompetent. At worse, they are one big criminal gang, and outright insurgents to boot.
I keep reading news reports that talk about how the Mehdi Army has "infiltrated" the Ministry of the Interior and all of the police agencies. "Infiltrate" is such an evocative word, bringing to mind images of dark clad guerillas scaling chain link fences in the middle of the night. That simply isn't the case. These guys have not surreptitiously snuck into the MOI. They are not hiding, or operating clandestinely, whispering quietly to each other in secret meetings after work. They've been outright hired by their buddies, particularly after the Shia gained control of the Iraqi government. Every IP station I have been in has Shia and Mahdi Army propaganda posters openly displayed inside it. They are not working to bring down the system. They are the system.
This is the government we are trying to shore up. Our children are dying for this.
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#54, Commentator Joan T. (roaxle),
Thank you for your blog post from the website. The more posted elsewhere the better for our troops.
I hope more people will be inspired to visit this website, to understand what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan, direct from the soldier's fighting these wars themselves.
I wish these blogs were being printed on the front page of every major newspaper in the United States, at least one a week. It would open more eyes to the truth.
Thanks again for sharing.
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For those of you, meaning the Townhouse type, that think this War will end in Iraq the moment our combat soldiers leave, well guess again, aint going to happen. This is a Religious War, Christians against Islam, this is what the Radical Islamic Clerics teach, and they will not stop when we leave, this aint no Video war Game!! The Middle Eastern Countrys are connected by one element ISLAM, Christians are not tolerated period. Just try and raise a Christian flag in Iraq, Iran, the Sudan or Somalia or Afghanistan, will never happen. The Pope, the great Catholic disgrace,he is even fearful of Islam and that is a fact!! This War is now not political, it is now a Crusade, Islam against Christians, Jews and the countrys they live in. The Iraqi citizens that are going to be found out as Colaberators, friendlys towards the Christian US, will be killed by the radical Muslim cult when we leave, this will indeed be the worst American ****up ever.
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"There are friends of mine, here on this deployment, who have been home with their families for 18 months out of the past four years, due to almost constant rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan."
That is their JOB - sorry to say it but 18 months out of four years means 30 months in - that isn't such a bad tour of duty during a WAR.
Giffords and Grijalva are a mess for representatives - it's like watching little kids act up to get the big kids to pay attention - they parrot what they hear so they'll fit in. A non-story - a bigger deal would be for them to have actually supported a surge considering DM is a huge employer in Tucson. This was a waste of newsprint - the Jr. Represntative that talked to a few people over a few months knows more than people who have been involved and the Representative from Mexico of course opposes anything that smacks of being supportive of America.
We got who you all voted for but they still represent all of us and contrary to what some of you believe not all of us thing non-binding resolutions during a war are a good idea. The Commander in Chief is the only one who can make those decisions for a reason.
Watch the true story about Blackhawk Down in Somalia if you think these sorts of things don't make a difference. We lost in Vietnam because the public was too involved and the politicians got scared - we won in WWII because the Commander in Chief made tough decisions. Can you imagine someone named Gabby making the decision to drop the bomb on not one but two cities?
The House and Senate should be setting up ways to ensure that the troups continue to get support rather than undermining then.
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"There are friends of mine, here on this deployment, who have been home with their families for 18 months out of the past four years, due to almost constant rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan."
That is their JOB - sorry to say it but 18 months out of four years means 30 months in - that isn't such a bad tour of duty during a WAR.
Giffords and Grijalva are a mess for representatives - it's like watching little kids act up to get the big kids to pay attention - they parrot what they hear so they'll fit in. A non-story - a bigger deal would be for them to have actually supported a surge considering DM is a huge employer in Tucson. This was a waste of newsprint - the Jr. Represntative that talked to a few people over a few months knows more than people who have been involved and the Representative from Mexico of course opposes anything that smacks of being supportive of America.
We got who you all voted for but they still represent all of us and contrary to what some of you believe not all of us thing non-binding resolutions during a war are a good idea. The Commander in Chief is the only one who can make those decisions for a reason.
Watch the true story about Blackhawk Down in Somalia if you think these sorts of things don't make a difference. We lost in Vietnam because the public was too involved and the politicians got scared - we won in WWII because the Commander in Chief made tough decisions. Can you imagine someone named Gabby making the decision to drop the bomb on not one but two cities?
The House and Senate should be setting up ways to ensure that the troups continue to get support rather than undermining then.
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thing = think
then = them
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56. Comment by inboundhunter
"Townhouse type" ??
Please explain.
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Comment # 58,Pam we won WW2 because our country had no choice but to win. Iraq only affects a soldiers life, and their familys life, never affects the normal US citizens life!
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Comment #60, The taken care of crowd, only knows what happens in the world Via their TV set. Trusts one political party, Go team Go type, No sweat or blood invovled type, Another words, they never ever get their own weak fingers involved.
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56. Comment by inboundhunter ..
58. Comment by Pam C. -
"We lost in Vietnam because the public was too involved and the politicians got scared"
That is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. We aren't MEANT to win every war, sweetheart. Especially when you go in and try to take over a country that has been fighting off occupier-wanna-bes like us for over 1,000 years! You can't just FORCE a goddamn country to bend to our will becaue we are the big, bad, "United States of America".
We ONLY won WW2 because it was a righteous war. And we, and the rest of the world, were frickin RIGHT to fight it!
We win wars that are MEANT to be won and the ones that it is RIGHT to win. I don't care if we are invading Hawaii. If the cause isn't "just" and we are just plain WRONG for fighting it, then we are going to LOSE! Plain and simple! There is a helluva lot more to winning a war than being the "United States".
And if you think after losing 58,000 troops that continuing to fight that stupid ass war was justified and losing another 58,000 troops was worth it, you are out of your mind! Just ask someone who was there. Except Nightstalker.In his opinion there has never been a war that we have ever fought that we shouldn't have been in.
That is because he's actually fought in every war going back to the Indian wars of the middle 1700's that America has ever fought, He also fought in the Civil War, for the south.
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56. Comment by inboundhunter ..
Never finished this one. Do you honestly think most Americans give a sh*t about what happens to Iraq after we leave? Most Americans are only concerned with us getting our asses out of that losing proposition. Let Bush take the blame for his stupid war.
We are more interested, even to this day, about going into Afganistan and finishing what we should have finished 5 years ago.
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Wow Wulf, the Margaritas are attacking, I give a ****, I always complete what I START! Afghanistan, is owned by Packyland, which is owned by Drug Companys in The United States of America. **** blame, Absolution is better!
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Let me guess, you think "love means never having to say you're sorry" and that starting a war in the wrong country against the better judgment of the majority of our people as well as our generals and experts means, "never having to say we fu*ked up", so, "let's just keep fighting because what the hell, we're already there aren't we?".
This is the only reason for continuing to fight this dumbass (another in a series) war.
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Comment 66 , We are of the same Generation, What Goes around Comes Around, Guess what we will be out flanked!! Winning is everything, Ask the Cats Fans!!! Luck only goes so far.
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LIfe is simple, do what you say you are going to, show up when you are suppose to, Finish the job simple, leave religion and ploitics out of it, WIN !
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