The rest is up for grabs, but to be honest with the amount of talent that USC has coupled with how poorly they’re performing leads me to the following idea:
USC’s success was largely do to Norm Chow calling offenses and Pete Carroll calling defenses. The more control Pete Carroll has over the whole show the worse things have gone.
Now I realize that they’re still really good, and things aren’t that bad for USC and UA would kill to have Pete Carroll’s success, but you can’t ignore the fact that when Norm Chow came to USC they immediatley started winning all the time and when he left they haven’t been the same. Ever sense he’s been gone there’s been a sloooooooooooooooooooooooow regression on the offensive side of the ball.
David-I hate USC but that’s an amazingly short sighted article and shows that you need to do some homework.
— vegasallen 10/14/2007 11:00 AM #
it was supposed to be a shortsighted off the cuff observation, that’s why i intro’d it with this sentace – ”...with the amount of talent that USC has coupled with how poorly they’re performing leads me to the following idea”
this is an idea that i’ve been toying with for a while. I wanted to get it on paper to see what others thought about it…obviously you don’t agree- why is that? I’m interested in the overall topic of Pete Carroll as a head coach and want to know what others think-
David,
I love USC, but I think you are right. Just because you sit next to Norm Chow for several years doesn’t mean you can suddenly call plays as well as Chow can do. With Chow calling plays, I doubt USC loses to Texas. Reggie Bush should have been on the field for their last offensive play, even as a decoy.
Let’s face it. This year, USC is completely mediocre (at least on the offensive side of the ball), even though they have been able to attract premium players as a result of their success during the Chow years.
The lack of development in Booty over thelast few years despite installing him as #1 is an embarrassment and indictment of the current regime. If Booty doesn’t have it (as may be the case), then he should have been demoted a long time ago. I thought there was supposed to be competition at every position, no? Carroll doesn’t appear to even practice what he preaches.
Don’t get me wrong. I love Carroll as a head coach, but I think he has limitations as an offensive coach, and he ought to acknowledge it.
— Dennis Hokama 10/14/2007 03:04 PM #
David- Due to injuries, they have less then half their starters playing. They also lost their best defensive player and their best offensive lineman during the game yesterday.
They can’t be #1 EVERY year but if they were healthy, would still easily be a top 10 team. So what’s the problem?
Chow is not the be all to end all. BYU lost Chow to USC and their program is still basically the same.
SC still has lots of talent but the backfield of Bush, White, and Lineheart is one of the best in college history so naturally there will be a dropoff.
After many up and down years(and many coaches, including Larry Smith) Pete Carrol came in and raised USC’s program to new heights.
Unreasonable expectations are making him a victim of his own success.
— vegasallen 10/14/2007 04:57 PM #
I’ll agree about the unreasonable expectations…BUT-
Dennis in post 3 made some points to ponder…why is that Booty hasn’t shown the developement that Leinart and Palmer showed? why is the “O” struggling so much this year and last year in parts? Not pointing fingers, just noting that since Chow left the offense at Troy hasn’t been the same…
one of the things that came to mind was the 4th and 2 against Texas that Dennis brought up…I wonder what would have happened if Chow had been calling plays.
There are some very high expectations this season at USC and they’re not being met in large part to massive amounts of injuries. we’ll see where the season goes from here
— david 10/14/2007 06:41 PM #
David, IMO you are correct!
Sometimes there is a fine-line between a championship team and an also-ran. If USC still has Chow, they beat Texas, they don’t lose to UCLA last year, rip Ohio in the NC game, like Florida did. This year they are undefeated, rated number one now, and Pete Carroll is still a god.
As you said, you can’t ignore the success they had with Norm. He is an offensive genius and he can evaluate and develop quarterbacks and receivers. Yes, They are a battered with injuries team this year, but they still have the talent to get things done, and with Norm, I am confident that the quaterback and receivers would be producing.
— chris 10/15/2007 01:13 AM #
David, just popped in to see what AZ was saying about the game and came across this. First to still harp on the 4th and 2 is ridiculous, we are 19 games removed, get over it. SC still scored 38 points on the Texas D.. that wasn’t the only play, if Bush doesn’t lateral, if Bing holds on to the PI.. yadda yadda yadda, if ifs were skiffs we’d all own a navy
Regarding this year.. I am not a Booty hugger, and wasn’t last year either and agree that he doesn’t have it and the problem lies not in booty’s poor performance but not pulling JDB. One of PC’s weaknesses in my humble opinion (and thats why I work outside of FB b/c I don’t know anything) is that he is too loyal to certain players (Chauncey being another, although we don’t have many backs to go to anymore).. that said and done, Give Sark a chance. as much as I hate the injury excuse and it is an excuse, when you don’t have four OL playing (four after two time All American Tackle Sam Baker went out) you are going to have problems run blockign and pass blocking. Its just a fact.
If the return of O’Dowd, Rachal and Baker can’t address the offenses inability to score then you have to start looking up the chain of command. However after the Wazzou game, USC was rolling.. Rachal and O’Dowd go down on the same play early in the UDub game and thats where the issues on offense started.. it has just snowballed from there. I believe three are due back by the Oregon game in two weeks.. lets see what happens up at Autzen.. I’m not sure if any one is back on the OL for the ND game.
I’m not ready to blame Sark and PC yet. Norm Chow wouldn’t have been able to help our OL the past two weeks either
— TrojanHorse98 10/15/2007 07:23 AM #
TH98-
I didn’t bring up the 4th and two play for the record, that was done by another ‘SC fan…
I do agree about all the injuries having a massive effect this year, all that and Caroll is still the coach of a top ten team.
so obviously its not all bad in Troy.
— David 10/15/2007 07:45 AM #
Gosh, where do you think the UA program would be today had Livengood pursued Chow instead of Stoops? I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Troy will “run the table” for the balance of the year. One loss, (agree it was a bad one) with all those injuries and going with a backup QB is a pretty good job. Arizona should be so fortunate. Pete has gambled alot over the years and that’s what makes USC football great. The team loves it, the fans love it, and most of the time it works.
— James 10/26/2007 04:28 PM #
Injuries to USC’s starting QB, one of their best O-lineman, and others—that explains the downfall.
Oregon is very good, but USC played them close—and with those injuries.
Cal, too, has slipped at least partly due to an injured starting QB. Key players unable to play or playing injured makes a difference.
— CroMagnon 11/08/2007 03:58 PM #
— vegasallen 10/14/2007 11:00 AM #
this is an idea that i’ve been toying with for a while. I wanted to get it on paper to see what others thought about it…obviously you don’t agree- why is that? I’m interested in the overall topic of Pete Carroll as a head coach and want to know what others think-
let me know…
— david 10/14/2007 02:14 PM #
I love USC, but I think you are right. Just because you sit next to Norm Chow for several years doesn’t mean you can suddenly call plays as well as Chow can do. With Chow calling plays, I doubt USC loses to Texas. Reggie Bush should have been on the field for their last offensive play, even as a decoy.
Let’s face it. This year, USC is completely mediocre (at least on the offensive side of the ball), even though they have been able to attract premium players as a result of their success during the Chow years.
The lack of development in Booty over thelast few years despite installing him as #1 is an embarrassment and indictment of the current regime. If Booty doesn’t have it (as may be the case), then he should have been demoted a long time ago. I thought there was supposed to be competition at every position, no? Carroll doesn’t appear to even practice what he preaches.
Don’t get me wrong. I love Carroll as a head coach, but I think he has limitations as an offensive coach, and he ought to acknowledge it.
— Dennis Hokama 10/14/2007 03:04 PM #
They can’t be #1 EVERY year but if they were healthy, would still easily be a top 10 team. So what’s the problem?
Chow is not the be all to end all. BYU lost Chow to USC and their program is still basically the same.
SC still has lots of talent but the backfield of Bush, White, and Lineheart is one of the best in college history so naturally there will be a dropoff.
After many up and down years(and many coaches, including Larry Smith) Pete Carrol came in and raised USC’s program to new heights.
Unreasonable expectations are making him a victim of his own success.
— vegasallen 10/14/2007 04:57 PM #
Dennis in post 3 made some points to ponder…why is that Booty hasn’t shown the developement that Leinart and Palmer showed? why is the “O” struggling so much this year and last year in parts? Not pointing fingers, just noting that since Chow left the offense at Troy hasn’t been the same…
one of the things that came to mind was the 4th and 2 against Texas that Dennis brought up…I wonder what would have happened if Chow had been calling plays.
There are some very high expectations this season at USC and they’re not being met in large part to massive amounts of injuries. we’ll see where the season goes from here
— david 10/14/2007 06:41 PM #
Sometimes there is a fine-line between a championship team and an also-ran. If USC still has Chow, they beat Texas, they don’t lose to UCLA last year, rip Ohio in the NC game, like Florida did. This year they are undefeated, rated number one now, and Pete Carroll is still a god.
As you said, you can’t ignore the success they had with Norm. He is an offensive genius and he can evaluate and develop quarterbacks and receivers. Yes, They are a battered with injuries team this year, but they still have the talent to get things done, and with Norm, I am confident that the quaterback and receivers would be producing.
— chris 10/15/2007 01:13 AM #
Regarding this year.. I am not a Booty hugger, and wasn’t last year either and agree that he doesn’t have it and the problem lies not in booty’s poor performance but not pulling JDB. One of PC’s weaknesses in my humble opinion (and thats why I work outside of FB b/c I don’t know anything) is that he is too loyal to certain players (Chauncey being another, although we don’t have many backs to go to anymore).. that said and done, Give Sark a chance. as much as I hate the injury excuse and it is an excuse, when you don’t have four OL playing (four after two time All American Tackle Sam Baker went out) you are going to have problems run blockign and pass blocking. Its just a fact.
If the return of O’Dowd, Rachal and Baker can’t address the offenses inability to score then you have to start looking up the chain of command. However after the Wazzou game, USC was rolling.. Rachal and O’Dowd go down on the same play early in the UDub game and thats where the issues on offense started.. it has just snowballed from there. I believe three are due back by the Oregon game in two weeks.. lets see what happens up at Autzen.. I’m not sure if any one is back on the OL for the ND game.
I’m not ready to blame Sark and PC yet. Norm Chow wouldn’t have been able to help our OL the past two weeks either
— TrojanHorse98 10/15/2007 07:23 AM #
I didn’t bring up the 4th and two play for the record, that was done by another ‘SC fan…
I do agree about all the injuries having a massive effect this year, all that and Caroll is still the coach of a top ten team.
so obviously its not all bad in Troy.
— David 10/15/2007 07:45 AM #
— James 10/26/2007 04:28 PM #
Oregon is very good, but USC played them close—and with those injuries.
Cal, too, has slipped at least partly due to an injured starting QB. Key players unable to play or playing injured makes a difference.
— CroMagnon 11/08/2007 03:58 PM #