At the invitation of a press release I spoke to Dan Isett, the Parents Telivision Council’s Director of Public Policy. The PTC praised Congressman Jim Matheson (D-UT) and Congressman Lee Terry (R-NE), who drafted a bill meant to crack down on retailers who sell M or the mythical AO-rated games to minors. The targeting and timing of the bill have to do with a certain ludicrously violent game released last week, and I’m not talking “Mario Kart.” The bill would make it a crime punishable by a $5,000 fine to sell games to minors. Seems pretty steep, when you consider the penalty for selling cigarettes to kids, at least in Arizona, is $203.
This movement seems all the more gratuitous and unnecessary when you consider the Federal Trade Commission found that only 20 percent of minors were able to buy M-rated games in a recent survey (compared to the Entertainment Software Ratings Board’s own research figure of 23-24 percent) and, as a colleague informed me in an email that convinced me to take the interview, the National Institute on Media and the Family has decided to work with the Entertainment Software Association and ESRB and rather than use the half-billion dollar release of “Grand Theft Auto IV” for political opportunism. Isett denied the latter accusation, saying “If you accuse us of good timing then we’re guilty.”
After speaking to Isett, who sheepishly said he’s not a parent, I’d say he’s a smart guy with the best of intentions. He’s just doing what he thinks is right to protect the children – while snagging his organization some free publicity and coasting on the tidal wave of the phenomenon he professes against.
“The existing system isn’t working and it’s time for the industry’s own policy to have some teeth to it,” Isett said. “There’s no consequence for a lack of compliance. And there should be some consequence.”
The current system doesn’t stop all kids from buying games, but I doubt a fine would close the gap at all. When big boss isn’t looking, the 19-year-old clerks will make up their own minds whether or not to card. But it’s a fair and intelligent argument for Isett to make.
When it comes to “Grand Theft Auto IV,” however, Isett is clueless. Here’s a transcript of part of our conversation.
Have you played the game?
“I’ve actually played ‘Grand Theft Auto IV,’ and it’s right in keeping with previous versions. The series continues to lower the bar and this is the first game that has an alcohol content warning. You get points for driving drunk in this game.”
You know that’s not true, right? The game doesn’t have points.
“If nothing else, it’s a rewarded activity. Necessary for advancement.”
I don’t think so.
“But there’s an alcohol content warning and a scene of drunk driving, correct?”
Yes. Did you play that part?
“No, no. I didn’t get that far.”
Are you a gamer at all? Do you play any games these days?
“I enjoy video games.”
What do you play?
“I have a lot of fun. I play all sorts of games. I actually have a Wii.”
What were the circumstances that you played “GTA IV?”
“I rented it at a friend’s house. I think that what’s important is it’s a horrifically violent game and if you want to quibble about extra points being granted, fine. It rewards every antisocial behavior.”
Isett said among the worst of such antisocial behavior is murder, and he played the game for a couple hours and was led by the game to kill other characters. When pressed for the circumstances in which he did the killing, because my and most other gamers’ first couple hours with the game were murder-free (although you do kill in self defense in some early missions), he refused to give any details.
I pressed him about why his organization is going after M-rated games rather than R-rated movies, and he kept repeating “the focus on this today is on video games, not movies.”
The comparison between movies and games isn’t valid, he said.
“I reject the argument that an M-rated game is comparable to an R-rated movie. One, it doesn’t require 30 hours of continuous game play to make your way through an R-rated movie.” Isett said scientific research proves games are more immersive than movies and should be treated differently.
As awkward as Isett sounds in those quotes, I was just as nonsensical when I accused Isett’s organization of wrongly declaring “Grand Theft Auto IV” was AO-rated in the press release.
Thank you. It’s nice to finally hear a rational and informed member of the press speak on this topic, and not just use it as another way to sensationalize something they obviously know nothing about in order to get themselves a headline. You’ve earned yourself a fan!
— Curtis 05/08/2008 01:29 PM #
Excellent job, Phil!
— Michael Shelling 05/08/2008 01:35 PM #
I love counter questions. I wish more journalists had the balls to ask them instead of asking the question once and nodding at whatever spin-o-matic answer is returned. If only the press could do that to our politicians, the world would be a better place.
— Billkwando 05/08/2008 01:38 PM #
This is fantastic. You sir are a genius and I’m glad people like are in a position to get your voice out to the public.
— Jeremy 05/08/2008 01:41 PM #
Elements of the Taliban are infiltrating the US! Ladies get those scarves ready! If Isett had his way you’d all be wearing those dresses the Texas cult was sporting.
— Biff Henderson 05/08/2008 01:41 PM #
Phil, you are my new favorite! What chances are there of the daily Star letting you do some game reviews as well as movies?
— Matthew 05/08/2008 01:42 PM #
Right on. While I don’t condone kids playing GTA IV, I condone even less lying about a problem to make it seem much larger than it actually is.
— Dave 05/08/2008 01:43 PM #
Thank you for doing this. Most members of the press/media are interested in nothing but fear mongering and keeping the public focused on minor issues while the real ones are being painted over.
— Azja B 05/08/2008 01:53 PM #
But what’s the point of drunk driving if you don’t get points?
It’s bloody hard to get anywhere like that. I normally just take a cab instead.
— Akirasfriend 05/08/2008 01:54 PM #
It great to see a article defending a video game and isn’t on a video game website.
— LvL ?? Assassin 05/08/2008 02:01 PM #
You should have asked him why he was choosing to kill people instead of showing mercy. After all, the people you have to kill in the game are usually out to kill you and you have to defend yourself (the right to bear arms is a big part of American culture and that culture is what is portrayed in the games). And the few innocents can be let go as you’re given a choice.
Or maybe you could have asked him why he chose to drive while drunk in the game when plenty of taxis are around the city. Niko even hails one differently when drunk so obviously you’re not meant to drive when drunk else they wouldn’t have recorded the different voice samples.
Personally I found cab rides to be more rewarding in the game. Choose somewhere far away, click to a radio station you enjoy and enable the cinematic camera. It’s just so relaxing.
— Furie 05/08/2008 02:43 PM #
Dan Isett should be doing some research before informing (or misinforming) the public.
yes, as a side quest you can drive drunk in the game, although you are discouraged from doing so. Points are NOT awarded for driving drunk. In fact, there are no points in this game. Furthermore, driving drunk is not necessary for advancement. At no point does the game force you to drive drunk. You could play through the entire game without having to drive drunk.
— josh 05/08/2008 03:25 PM #
All those censorship groups like the PTC only do this because they don’t like the games and they want to enforce their morality onto us and control our lives which is more sickening than grand theft auto could ever be.
Glad someone called them out on their lies.
— Father Time 05/08/2008 03:53 PM #
I’m tired of these jerks who condemn something without reading/watching/playing it.
— CyberSkull 05/08/2008 04:08 PM #
Phil, you have not played the game either, obviously. The issue at heart with GTA4 is the fact that it should have an AO rating and it does not, because the ESRP is playing to the manufacturer. In the game, not only can you drive drunk, you can have explicit SEX with women, I’m talking fully exposed here , hard core PORN, fully enacted oral sex, anal sex, you name it. Naked, no pasties. Not from a distance, but played on the screen as if the girl were on your lap! Afterwards you can beat the girl with a bat. Then drive off drunk and try to kill as many pedestrians as you can.
It is an AWFUL game that NO CHILD should EVER be allowed to play. And this is coming from a mother who has seen the game FIRST HAND.
— Titus1Nine 05/08/2008 04:22 PM #
Phil-you definatly gained a fan here and I will be watching your stories with great interest in the future. It’s so refreshing to see someone as a reporter not only call someone out when they lie, but also thinks rationally. In a time when people point fingers at everything and spread misinformation, I think your journalism could do a lot of good in a LOT of areas of the news. Bravo!!
— EvenStephen7 05/08/2008 04:35 PM #
@ Titus1Nine
Where did you find a place to have naked close-up hardcore anal sex!? I thought i had done a lot of what was possible in the game but i still haven’t found any hardcore “PORN” (Your capital letters really don’t add anything). Actually, the reason i didn’t see it was because it cannot happen in the game. Your a dumb, misinformed, fear-mongering individual whose sad rant about fantasy nudity in a video game is as pathetic as it is hilarious. When you say you saw the game “FIRST HAND” you weren’t by any chance watching Fox News and thinking dirty thoughts about blue aliens were you?
— ifalldownstairs 05/08/2008 04:59 PM #
Titus1nine
if you have seen this first hand you would know that there is no what I would call explicit sex in there. The point is that ao games are not allowed to be sold. Could you imagine the uproar if a movie like Scarface or Goodfellas couldn’t be sold because they have strong adult themes? For instance in Goodfellas there is a scene where Joe Pesci’s character stabs a guy in the back of a car repeatedly which is about 40 times worse than anything I’ve encountered in GTA
— Liam 05/08/2008 05:00 PM #
Hey Phil,
I think you did a good job with your follow-up questions. I’ve been playing the game for roughly 40 hours now, and I don’t have a problem with the content at all. Isett had a valid point when he said that games are more immersive than movies, but the reason for that is choice. You are passive when watching a movie… your only real choice is whether or not to keep watching it. Whereas, a game, you can choose whether or not to kill/save someone, whether or not to go to the strip club, whether or not to hire a hooker (fully clothed sex scenes, btw, Titus1Nine), or whether or not you just feel like strolling throughout the city. I know one guy who’s playing through the entire game without killing anyone who does not shoot at him or his in game friends first. If you choose to go on a slaughter fest, there are consequences, cops will come after you in greater and greater force until you are dead or find a way to change your appearance. If this is your choice, then there is something in you that wants to know what would happen if you did that. That, I think, is the saving grace of video games. If you can see what would happen to you if you went out drunk driving, or if you went postal, you wouldn’t have the urge (that’s obviously there to some degree if you wanted to try it in a safe venue) to do it in reality. Therapists routinely have their patients work out anger issues by hitting a pillow so that the patients don’t actually become violent towards the person/people that they’re angry at. I think that video games work in much the same way. I know that I feel less stressed after playing games for awhile than before I start… it’s one of the main reasons that I’m a gamer.
— Dingo 05/08/2008 05:48 PM #
Titus1nine
All I can say is, well, you’ve never seen porn. Nothing in this game comes close to porn. Prostitutes are clothed and strippers are never naked (i.e. they always have pasties on). Apparently you got a version of the game that the 6 million other people who bought it didn’t. I have to surmise that you have never actually played this game FIRST HAND.
— Ian 05/08/2008 05:55 PM #
“In the game, not only can you drive drunk, you can have explicit SEX with women, I’m talking fully exposed here , hard core PORN, fully enacted oral sex, anal sex, you name it. Naked, no pasties. Not from a distance, but played on the screen as if the girl were on your lap!”
That is a blatant LIE. Shame on you, Titus1Nine. You are lying and if you played the game, you KNOW you are lying.
— JimK 05/08/2008 06:13 PM #
Considering most of these watchdog groups tend to cite the bible at some point, why doesn’t anyone ever point out “Thou shalt not bear false witness” when they’re out telling blatant lies?
— Cattleprod 05/08/2008 06:41 PM #
.. I want the version of the game that Titus1Nine is playing. Ow.. what’s that? That’s not GTA4? That’s 3DSexVilla? Ah, no problems then, already have it. >.>
— Cosmo 05/08/2008 06:48 PM #
Thanks for the article Phil! To reiterate what some of the above folks have said, it’s nice to read about someone sticking up for a game against opportunist organizations such as the PTC.
To think, without these games, what would these people be complaining about? I’m sure they’d find something equally as asnine.
@Liam “ao games are not allowed to be sold”: This isn’t quite true. AO Games are allowed to be sold, but they are kind of handled like xxx rated movies are; kept in the back, you have to ask for them, kind of thing. The biggest thing that affects a game rated AO is that big box retailers won’t sell them (by choice of the corporation, not law). So, all of the people who normally shop at Wal-Mart or Target would have to make a side trip to pick up the game.
My biggest concern with this situation is best displayed by something I heard on FOX News the other day while I was eating at a restaurant (I would never watch that sensationalist crap by choice). The subject was video games and the “news person” actually said something to the effect of “how are we going to keep these things out of our homes and our children’s lives. The Government should really take some action”.
Sorry, but that’s not the government’s job, it’s the PARENT’s job!! Know what your kids are playing and who they are playing with!
Sorry, I’m rambling now. I don’t post often but I read a lot of posts, so I guess all of my thoughts have poured out here. Anyone still reading this post, thanks for taking the time!
— Enigma 05/08/2008 06:52 PM #
Going on a bit of a tangent if I may – The book “Grand Theft Childhood” talks about the ratings system being backwards for games that have “animated” violence don’t realistically portray the results of violence. The counter-argument is that unrealistic violence doesn’t “summon demons in the child,” but it doesn’t teach kids to have realistic expectations (the foundation of empathy).
— Edwin Herdman 05/08/2008 07:12 PM #
“Don’t judge a book by it’s cover” this is what actually those who are always fighting an upcoming game/movies with violence. If this article was totally broadcast on the televisions around the world, PTC reputation will lost. all people think that they are the people who are idiots as a monkey
— fernando 05/08/2008 08:40 PM #
Man that guy sounds like a complete retard.
— Mordennight 05/08/2008 09:05 PM #
The BBFC recently performed a study that proved that gamers are LESS immersed in games than films due to the need to constantly interact with it.
So saying they are more immersive is, in fact, a provably fallacy.
— Doctor Fruitbat 05/09/2008 02:52 AM #
Titus1nine is prevaricating very, very ingeniously. Also known as a troll.
Thank you, Mr. Villarreal for doing the right thing and cornering a fear monger and calling him out on it. The parents television council has failed reality many times before…
— Rob 05/09/2008 07:47 AM #
The first time you get drunk in the game, the in-game hint system encourages you to take a cab if you are drunk. Also, if the police see you driving drunk in the game, they immediately try to pull you over, and it is nearly impossible to escape from them considering how difficult it is to control a vehicle in the game while drunk.
— Matt 05/09/2008 08:13 AM #
I just don’t understand people like Isett. Instead of spending their time pursuing more helpful causes, they go and chase after videogames. They lie and create false stereotypes about us gamers, and in the end they accomplish nothing. And still, when the next controversial game is released, they’re all over it. Has anybody else wondered why don’t they attack gory movies like Hostel? I mean, kids could get them if they wanted to, there’s plenty of ways.
And Titus1nine… go lurk moar before trolling. You were too obvious.
— Bozz 05/09/2008 10:20 AM #
@Titus1Nine:
While ObviousTroll is Obvious, SuccessfulTroll is still successful. Congratulations.
On the topic of AO, what’s also important to note is that none of the major consoles allow AO games to be produced. You’ll only find AO games for the PC.
— TheOneTrueMango 05/09/2008 01:34 PM #
If you get drunk in GTA4 (entirely optional), your friends will warn you not to drive and the game will suggest you take a cab. If you ignore their warnings, you will find it very difficult to drive and are likely to crash. If the police see you driving drunk, they will arrest you.
So here you have the policy director for a notorious media watchdog group lying through his teeth, claiming that the game not only rewards you for driving drunk but actually requires it, and the best you can respond with is “I don’t think so”? *cry* What a wasted opportunity! You should have burned him to the ground.
— EricTetz 05/09/2008 02:46 PM #
Is the full transcript of the interview available somewhere?
— tankilo 05/09/2008 04:11 PM #
Titus1Nine is doing something called a lampoon. In this case, taking a few character traits and taking them out to the absurd. I salute you for your skills.
— LaughingTarget 05/09/2008 05:04 PM #
“What do you play?”
“I have a lot of fun. I play all sorts of games. I actually have a Wii.”
What the fudges?!?!?!
Cheers Mr. Villarreal, its good to see honest, fair journalism :D
— So'o F 05/10/2008 12:17 AM #
Kudos to you for sure. I am pretty sick of ignorant news reports about video game violence and sex when the reporters have not played the games themselves. I don’t know if you remember, but this happened for sexual content in Mass Effect as well. Ridiculous.
— ZEZEtheX 05/10/2008 12:59 PM #
Did a little research on titus1nine. Google it. Religious nutter. Not a mutter. Tolling for Christ, thats a new one.
— Jax-ion 05/11/2008 02:01 AM #
Well I dont care what critics have to say. anyways the game is on the ps3 and xbox 360 and well now a days I dont see anybody younger than 14 having those consoles. The game was totally advertised toward adults and I just dont understand where these people are getting there information from.
— nowruzr 05/11/2008 11:18 AM #