The gaping hole in Arizona’s 2008 recruiting class may be filled soon.
The surprise decommitment today of Jeff Withey from Rick Pitino’s Louisville Cardinals gives the Wildcats a good chance to add a Top 50 post player to class already boosted significantly by guard Brandon Jennings.
Withey is leaving this one open as of now, according to trainer Trent Suzuki, but here’s a few clues about which way he’s leaning: He wants to play closer to home (so no Louisville), likes an uptempo style of play (hurting UCLA’s chances) and happens to train in his San Diego hometown under Suzuki (Chase Budinger’s mentor).
“Right now our recruiting is wide open,” Suzuki said, “but he really wants to stay closer to home.”
The fact that Arizona offers Withey a good chance at starting immediately alongside Jordan Hill in the post during the 2008-09 season can’t hurt UA’s sales pitch, either.
Withey is expected to take an unofficial visit to UA later this month and a decision could come soon afterward, unless another school sneaks in and shakes things up further.
UA already has three 2008 commitments: Jennings (a point guard), wing Brendon Lavender and power forward Emmanuel Negedu, so getting a big man is the Wildcats’ biggest priority.
— WildcatIKE 06/06/2007 04:12 AM #
Alex Jacobsen/Withey
Jordan Hill/Mo/Fendi
Jamelle Horne/Fendi/Negedu
LLP/Lavender/Zane Johnson
Jennings/Wise
Balance, shooting and inside presence…not to mention that if Jacobsen matures and is worth the roster spot we coul put two 7 footers on the floor at the same time…07-08 could be a special year…now let’s allow ourselves a brief fantasy…what if Chase decides to stay one more year and Bayless decides to play 2 at UA
Hill
Chase
Horne
Bayless
Jennings
be still my heart
— scott 06/06/2007 07:04 AM #
That second lineup you mentioned with Chase and Jerryd still playing at Arizona would be absolutely sick. With an energy guy like Negedu coming off the bench, along with a shooter like LLP, Lavender, or Johnson, Arizona could have a great team there.
Let’s be realistic though, I could see Bayless staying for 07-08 to play with Jennings moreso than Chase staying for 07-08, but we’ll see, and hope that they both stay. Either way, it’s great to see how well Arizona is recruiting right now.
Bruce, is there any recent news on Terrence Jennings’ recruiting and his academic issues?
— darren 06/06/2007 10:15 AM #
Still I think there will be enough balance if Chase and Bayless leave to chanllege for a title.
I would be nice if Jwan stepped it up next season and became the lone star of this team so that he could get his shot at the NBA and both Bayless and Chase would feel they had something to prove. I still want a great year next, but would settle for reaching the final four and shooting for a title the following year. I just think there are going to be mountians to climb next year no matter what.
Good posts guys! You got me even more excitied thinking about it.
— WildcatIKE 06/06/2007 11:55 AM #
Hopefully this year will be different.
— Nate 06/06/2007 12:29 PM #
Plenty is different. New guys in the backcourt, and a great recruiting class. Furthered development of Jordan Hill and Chase Budinger. Hopefully an increased emphasis on tough defense with Kevin O’Neill. Lots to be excited about, in my opinion.
Also, in my post above, I meant 08-09, not 07-08.
— darren 06/06/2007 01:12 PM #
You forgot to mention the hiring of a new head coach :) I am stoked myself.
— Robert 06/06/2007 03:03 PM #
Moreso, being from the ‘keeping it for real’ school of thought regarding Wildcat hoops, Coach Olson’s 5 have the ‘potential’ to make a Sweet-16 run. Of course, this is all predicated on seeding possibilities. Playing beyond the first weekend of the Tourney will be ‘all gravy’ nonetheless.
— voice of lunacy 06/06/2007 05:21 PM #
Could this be one of the ‘haters’ you are referring to?.....
*************************************
IN OTHER WORDS, IT’S OVER! THE SEASON, THE ERA…...OVER!!!!
— Robert Mar 1, 3:37pm #
*************************************
— vegasallen 06/06/2007 09:25 PM #
Glass half full guys!
— WildcatIKE 06/07/2007 05:11 AM #
— RJ Rants 06/07/2007 06:46 AM #
So you admit that the UA had to hire O’Neill because Lute was not able to get the job done?
Also, if the UA has another bad season, who are your leading candidates for team cancer? It seems like the Lute lovers always seem to find at least one in order to deflect criticism from the coach.
— Robert 06/07/2007 06:46 AM #
Olson was the only coach…those other people were well dressed hangers-on, so therefore Olson is the only problem and it is he that must go
Actual view of 06-07 Cats (and previous years): Rosborough, Pastner, and Simon made significant contributions to the program, recruits, scouting, game-planning etc. Olson relies on these assistants probably more than any other coach because of his commitment to recruiting. So if there’s a disparity in the coaching while he’s away…
Roberts version of the aftermath: UA hired a new head coach (why he keeps spewing this is beyond me, Robert’s shown himself to be quite the solopsist), and he single handedly brought in what is shaping up to be one of UA’s best ever recruiting classes.
Actual view of the aftermath: Olson realizes that there is a difficiency in the way his assistants, in this case one assistant, is contributing to the team, and makes a controversial move to bring in someone more suited to the teams needs. This ASSISTANT COACH helped but ultimately had small contribution to the recruiting efforts of two players.
So there’s Roberts view of things and then there’s what really happened, I figured this out long ago, and no matter what he’ll come back with some loophole filled post that will, at the end of the day, allow him to be right no matter what, see, if the team struggles this year, he can say “I told you so!” but if the team has success, he doesn’t have to give Olson credit because in his mind O’Niell is the head coach (despite the fact that Olson is)...way to go Robert
— scott 06/07/2007 07:55 AM #
For his sake, and for the universites recruiting him, I think he should wait until the next season starts before making a commitment.
The other school I’ve heard him considering is UCLA but I don’t know where they would get the scholarship unless Jrue Holiday commits to U-Dub OR someone leaves for the NBA unexpectedly. By the way, I think you are going to see UCLA running more. They didn’t have the guys to do it before but…strange as this may sound…getting K-Love and losing Afflalo will allow them to do it more.
— Gary 06/07/2007 08:41 AM #
Obviously you didn’t get the memo re: leadership starts at the top.
Let me see. Lute’s boy Shakur was given the keys to the kindgom and essentially ran it into the ground. Lute’s unwaivering loyalty to Shakur caused the transfer of other guards who could have possibly turned things around, but somehow Roz gets all the blame here.
Lute was the decision maker here over the last two years and Roz takes the fall. Nice.
— Robert 06/07/2007 11:34 AM #
— Sean 06/07/2007 11:53 AM #
robert thinks that o’niell is the head coach so he’s fool-proof no matter what happens…
Ronert-
you don’t know why those other guards transfered, or that verdejo and prince would have been better…verdejo has been a non-factor at central florida and we’ll see about prince…prince never impressed me but he was highly rated…so do we chalk that up to a recruiting miscue? even if he was sought after by just about every major college program? no…he’s just a guy that didn’t work hard enough…
leadership does start at the top, and if the top sees something in the subordinants that isn’t working it’s his duty to make the change..i’ve said it before…if we’re not remarkably better next year its time to re-evaluate
— scott 06/07/2007 12:09 PM #
— Trev in KC 06/07/2007 12:24 PM #
I hope the team is working in the weight room. I’d like to see ‘em go to Camp Cochise and get the mental grip on being physical before September.
Practice not being pushed around.
Practice setting solid screens with a commanding will.
Practice toughness so opponents pay in pain when they set up to take a charge.
We already have the skills, the finesse, the basketball sense.
Bear down!
— MRZRULE 06/07/2007 12:41 PM #
RiC
— Rob in Corvallis 06/08/2007 09:52 AM #
Trust me, I am a huge fan. I also consider myself different than most in that I am able to retain a degree of objectivity about my team. Most of the people on this board are just ra-ra cheerleader types.
And you know what? IT’S BORING! It’s also just plain myopic. Just because you are a fan, it doesn’t mean that you have to check your brain at the door and deny what is right before your eyes.
Lute is done folks and he was dead and buried more than two years ago when Illinois knocked that swagger right off the face of the program. The team has not been the same since. That’s why they brought O’neill into the fold. It was the right thing to do. Sloppy execution, but still the right thing to do.
So, next year when the UA makes it official and O’neill is up front and center, you all can make your apologies. Marco, I expect you to be first.
— Robert 06/08/2007 10:30 AM #
“I also consider myself different than most in that I am able to retain a degree of objectivity about my team.”
with this
“Head Coach O’Niell”, “The New Regime”
yes this screams objectivity…
No you’re not objective, you have your opinion that you stick to no matter what, and you have set yourself up so that no matter what you can’t be “wrong” if we succeed this year you can heap all the praise on O’Niell, and if we fail you can lay all the blame on Lute…if we’re in the middle you can say that Lute meddled too much with O’Niell’s coaching…
Objectivity is looking at all sides of the issue, go through my posts along with those of resonably inteligent fans such as vegasallen and you’ll see objectivity…my stand has been that things aren’t as bad as you make them seem, O’Niell was a necessary hire, and if we are not drastically improved next season we need to re-evaluate the head coaching position…that Robert is objectivity…you are confusing “opinionating” for objectivity…you just do so in such a way that you don’t have to ever be wrong…like i said before, congratulations on superior argument structure, most people don’t realize how good you are at this…but you lost quite a bit with your remark that you are able to maintain “objectivity” about your team…your stance is SUBjective and completely so
— scott 06/08/2007 11:08 AM #
Robert,
“And you know what? IT’S BORING!” Is this all about entertainment? Get a life.
— Nate 06/08/2007 12:45 PM #
Take it easy. Get over it… it’s time to move on. And no, I’m not a scum-devil.
— Nate 06/08/2007 01:09 PM #
— Trev in KC 06/08/2007 02:44 PM #
I hope he is shooting 300 jump hooks a day with the left… and 200 jump hooks with the right.
And no I am not “Joshing.”
If he is not doing AT LEAST THAT he is being coached out of his natural talent.
That would be a shame.
As that unstoppable and under-appreciated shot seems to come easy to him.
Make him ambidexterous with it, work on his hands… and he would be a monster.
— Senor A 06/08/2007 04:52 PM #
It’s women’s softball! Who cares?! Don’t tell me that you wouldn’t trade a few of those softball titles for titles that really matter. Not that this isn’t a great accomplishment for the team, but come on! When you are bragging up the accomplishments of women’s softball and not talking about recent accomplishments in basketball or football, you gotta big problem with your athletic department. Yes, it’s great, but the money sports are basketball and football. Those are the titles that matter.
Next thing you will be telling me that you are also a fan of the WNBA.
Scott-
Being objective doesn’t mean that I have to accept your point of view or any other point of view if it is inherently incorrect. For instance, if you told me that two plus two equaled five, and I responded, “Well, no, obviously it’s four,” does that make my assertion biased?
Your opinion on the subject of the status of the program is duly noted. It’s also wrong and calling it for what it is doesn’t make me any less objective. I saw the debacle in the United Center as did the rest of the country. Lute blew it….......big. The rest of the country saw it for what it was, an epic choke job. Alot of people in Tucson don’t quite look at it that way. Why? Because of the personal feelings that they have for the man. Hey, I agree, he’s probably a decent guy. Nothwithstanding, his perfomance with his program over the last two years flat out sucked when you consider the talent he had at his disposal. 20 win seasons? Yep, and early round flameouts and blow outs at home.
He lost control in Chicago and hasn’t regained it since. Oh, and don’t even get me started about players getting picked up on suspicion of DUI over the last two years. That’s why O’neill is here now. That is, to restore the order that Lute cannot.
So, when O’neill is officially named head coach next year, I will expect some props from you as well :)
— Robert 06/08/2007 06:03 PM #
I’d rather brag about class acts, coaches, and teams like those of Candrea, Frank Busch, or Fred Harvey, than brag about a DUI prone quarterback/shooting guard, or any other of the football guys who have their coaches holding their hands and walking them to class to make sure they stay eligible. I’m damn proud to have a back-to-back national championship softball team at Arizona. Ever heard of the Directors’ Cup? Besides, Arizona Basketball just added to its streak of 23 consecutive tournament appearances. If I’ve done my math right, Arizona has lost in the NCAA tournament 9 times in the 1st round, 3 times in the 2nd, 4 times in the 3rd, 3 times in the 4th, and been to the Final Four 4 times while under Lute. Perhaps Lute “lost control” back in 98 when they lost in the Elite 8 and then lost in the 1st and 2nd rounds in the next two years. Oh yeah, didn’t Justin Wessel get a DUI in 2000 as well? Sounds familiar, right? Man, maybe Lute “lost it” way back in ‘93 when the Cats failed to make it out of the 1st round for 2 years in a row.
You mention “the last two years and the talent Lute has had at his disposal.” Wrong! Arizona’s past few recruiting classes have not been as highly rated as they have been in the past. Even this past year’s class with Chase Budinger wasn’t even a top-20 class. However, this class coming in, as well as the one next year (you might’ve heard of some guy named Brandon Jennings), are very highly rated. My point is, its far too early to know if the program truly is in decline, and my guess is its not. Arizona has been struck with more recruiting misses than hits, and while the blame of that falls squarely on the coaching staff, its clear that Lute obviously has not lost his ability to sell the program to an 18 year-old kid from Los Angeles and his family. Have patience, and I hope that Lute coaches the team to a deep run in the tournament next year so he can stick it in your face.
— darren 06/08/2007 10:22 PM #
When you have pride in your school and in your community, it matters plenty. I don’t care if they are in a “glamour” sport or not, the UA Women’s Softball team showed grit, class and heart. I’m proud to call them Wildcats.
Robert, you are without a doubt, a class-a moron.
— Sean 06/08/2007 11:13 PM #
Yeah, the Cats’ talent was real bad this year. So bad, in fact, that at least one analyst on ESPN had picked them during the preseason to go to the final four, as I am sure that many a Cat fan had too. Besides, were not many people convinced that with cancers like Adams and Rodgers gone, that team chemistry would be better, etc? Of course, midway through the season it turns out that this team was not performing up to expectations. And the explanation by many? Yep, more cancers. This time Shakur and Williams were the culprits. See the pattern here? Always the cancers and never the top dog in charge. If this team starts to tank next season, I predict that people in this town will start to blame Bayless. It will go something like, “Well, all he cares about is going to the NBA. It’s hurting team chemistry…..........blah, blah, blah” Marco, of course, will blame Head Coach O’neill but I digress.
And yes, I did hear about Jennings? It seems that part of what influenced him was the arrival of Head Coach O’neill.
Sean,
Hey, you are spot on about the Wildcats softball team. Everything you say about their grit, class, and heart is 100% true. Bottom line, however, is most people care about the glamour sports. In college athletics, football is king. Next comes basketball. Don’t believe me, look at the TV ratings. College football is off the chart and the NCAA tournament draws well also.
Look, I am a UA fan, so if the softball game is on I may watch it because I root for my school no matter the sport. I know that this may come as a shock to you, but it’s true. I even root for Lute believe it or not. Anyway, if I am not a UA fan, chances are I am not going to watch it unless I am a die hard women’s softball fan (ain’t alot of them out there). The same is not true of sports like college football and basketball. In this case, people will be more likely to watch the “big” game because it’s interesting because you have star power, hype, the whole nine yards. Because of this, people are going to judge the athletic success of a school based on how they perform in the big two. So when I say “who cares”, the nationwide TV ratings and people’s general perceptions are going to back me up on this one. So, please, refrain from the name calling.
Honestly, which do you think generates more pride in a school and a community – a softball championship or a basketball championship? Or, put is this way – which type of championship is more likely to cause a riot, looting, sporatic gunfire, and civil unrest after the game? On that note, can you imagine what would happen in Tucson if the UA ever managed to win a championship in Football. The Nationa Guard would have to be called out :)
— Robert 06/09/2007 12:00 AM #
— Nemus 06/09/2007 01:29 AM #
— RJ Rants 06/09/2007 06:57 AM #
You fail to address my main point. What is different about the past two years (where Arizona lost in the first and second rounds consecutively after an Elite 8 run) compared to 1998-2000 (when they lost in the first and second rounds after an Elite 8 run)?
Ahhhh yeah, the meltdown in Chicago. One loss scrambled Lute’s brains and he is no longer able to coach. Not likely buddy, but keep trying.
— darren 06/09/2007 07:58 AM #
you said “Being objective doesn’t mean that I have to accept your point of view or any other point of view if it is inherently incorrect. For instance, if you told me that two plus two equaled five, and I responded, “Well, no, obviously it’s four,” does that make my assertion biased?”
Now, let the lesson begin:
Objectivity means looking at facts for facts, roughly speaking, SUBjectivity is looking at OPINIONS and creating a point of view, this you have done regarding our beloved wildcats, and have attempted to spin it as fact…the classic misdirection of 2+2=5 does not in fact fit the case, that is a fallacy of logic and therefore not right, so you do not have to accept it. It is your OPINION that the last two seasons were below average seasons for the ‘Cats solely because of Lute, but there is absolutely no way to prove that OBjectively. Only using SUBjectivity can this be proven, thus your fallacious argument using the 2+2=5 fallacy. The same can be said of HEAD COACH+O’NIELL= Head Coach O’Niell…not true because on his door reads “Assistant Coach” and therefore Head Coach O’Niell is a fallacy.
what you have done is set up a syllogistic argument to where SUBjectively you can be right all the time (care to comment on this by the way, you’ve yet to actually admit that I figured you out) because if we fail, you’re right about Lute, and if we’re great you can give all the credit to O’Niell without having to praise Lute…even though it was Lute who hired the guy, Lute who sold Negedu and Jennings on the program and Lute who made the decision to bring in an assistant to make the program more viable.
the main point here Robert is that you think you’re really clever, when the point of fact is moreso that you’re just an ass. Logically speaking it would read: If Robert keeps calling him Head Coach O’Niell, and he is not Head Coach, then Robert is wrong.
I will leave you with another logical equation
If “Head Coach” is written on the door of the Head Coach’s office, and Lute Olson occupies that Office, then Lute Olson is the Head Coach.
Here ends the lesson
— scott 06/09/2007 10:02 AM #
The difference is that Lute is 1o years older. This is a young man’s game. Hence, the hiring of O’neill.
— Robert 06/09/2007 10:03 AM #
But if UA gets Withey, I think it drops Jennings from the list.
Senor A—Right on about Jordan. I haven’t seen him work out lately but suspect he’s doing some of that.
— Bruce Pascoe 06/09/2007 11:09 AM #
Props to the protaganist, who is willing to forfeit his credibility if not self esteem to keep it active.
FWIW, my take on the recent travails of Olson Inc. is that the game itself has evolved.
Olson as a traditionalist, was simply reluctant to make the personnel changes necessary to accomodate where the game is going/has gone.
He has finally made the gut wrenching decisions to acknowledge that his longtime assistant and friend, Rosborough, was not capable of bringing the hardnosed mentality that is required to prepare the team to compete in this evolving style of NCAA play.
I doubt that at similar levels of their careers many of the marquee players that have advanced to prominence at the next level would have been as succesful if the NCAA game was the same then as now.
This includes Elliott, Damon, Terry, Bibby, Salim, Frye and others.
(Maybe not Arenas)
The game is now played and officiated unlike it used to be and coaches must adapt or perish.
Olson, reluctatntly, finally, achnowledged this and made the call to jettison an old friend who had shared incredible success in another era.
Was he late, probably.
Did this affect our teams success recently…absolutely.
Will there be a hangover going forward..don’t think so.
I think O’Neil was abolutely the right call here and given the makeup of the players continuing and coming in now, I think Arizona prospects are better than ever, and Lute’s return to “Water walking” status both here and nationally is imminent.
YMMV…...
— Metacomet 06/09/2007 11:12 AM #
— trevor wells 06/09/2007 09:27 PM #
Othic was another overrated player, but he did not come to the program as celebrated as Shakur. With Shakur, the expectations were higher and he simply failed to deliver. But despite my hard critique on Shakur, I nevertheless believed that he had enough talent and enough talent around him for the team to do better then they did. From that standpoint, I think that the team would have met their potential by making it into the round of 16 the last two seasons. Anything on top of that would have been gravy.
As for Mulbach, I never had a problem with him because I thought that he played up to his potential. He played good defense, could take care of the ball, and was deadly from beyond the arc. Didn’t he also post a triple double or two? Overall, he was a really good player. In fact, last year’s team could have used a player like Mulbach.
Scott,
I think that you are a bit paranoid about my arguments on this blog.
Metacomet:
All those players you mentioned would be just fine in today’s game.
— Robert 06/09/2007 09:53 PM #
Most doubters have not questioned Lute’s recruiting, we have questioned why such noteworthy recruits did not meet the hype. I remember Shakur in highschool. I live in PA and he was great, not to mention the number one pg in the country. He was as big a recruit as bibby, stoudamire, reeves, jefferson and so on. I have always suspected that Olson landed him with the promise of; you will start every game while a ‘cat.’ The past two seasons, Olson and crew had the talent, which is what brought out the questions. Olson’s hiring of O’neil seems to support the questioners claim that something needed to be done at the top.
— stephen 06/11/2007 10:18 AM #
— stephen 06/11/2007 10:23 AM #
LET ME TELL YOU IT IS NOT WORTH IT PEOPLE!
I suggest that everyone start skipping any entry Robert makes on this board from now on. Let’s read and talk about things that matter to us and stop getting caught up in his foolish rubbish.
I think once he notices that nobody cares about his thoughts, he might just go away… i mean it could get very boring for him to blog to himself.
I for one skipped over all of Roberts posts on this board this morning, but can see that he was getting to some of you…. By the way it was funny to read some of the things posted to him. This guy is obviously no very well like.
Good DAY!
— WildcatIKE 06/12/2007 05:43 AM #
Robert…as always, props to you. These boards would be void of any real value without you (whether comical or intellectual). But I also admire your dissenters, for there would be the same void without them.
Back to the question of the big man I mentioned a few weeks ago…we have nothing yet, remember that. That does not mean J Hill will not be a huge impact, I believe he will be. The focus now has to be on recruiting his and Walter’s successor, not another undersized guard.
Look at the bright side my friends…it cannot get any worse than last year. At least this team will have some passion and energy (I hope).
The Pac-10 is going to be loaded with talent next year; I cannot wait to see this.
— Nick 06/12/2007 08:27 AM #
Are you a cheerleader for Robert? You guys make a nice couple! Couple of fruit cakes that is!
— WildcatIKE 06/12/2007 09:18 AM #
A little battle? I didn’t know that we were at war :) I guess I just don’t get that worked up when someone takes shots at my team because scoreboard is the ultimate decider of the argument. It is what it is. Of course, I should realize that taking shots at fans of a team from an industrial urban center east of the Miss. has serious consequences.
Seriously, what do you think of Kobe Bryant for practically the entire Bulls roster? Seems like the Chicago fish hacks are all over this one. Not sure, however, if this makes either team better. The Bulls would be a 7 or 8 seed in the West and the Lakers are a & or 8 seed team now. The trade seems like a wash from the Lakers standpoint and subtraction by addition of Bryant for the Bulls.
— Robert 06/12/2007 02:49 PM #
What team did I take a shot at? And what Scoreboard are you talking about. Have another drink of kool-aide brother!
God, there I go, had to read this BS again. It is pointless talking to you.
— WildcatIKE 06/13/2007 04:27 AM #
— Metacomet 06/13/2007 06:01 AM #
I am not joking. The trade talk out here is that Chicago is considering a trade for Bryant in exchange for Gordon, Wallace, Deng, and a draft pick.
— Robert 06/13/2007 07:48 AM #
I know for certian that the Bulls have been wroking out Spencer Hawes, Julian Wright, Jason Smith and Noah really hard this past week. I think the Bulls will take Hawes. Just my thought.
Also, Marco has a good point… The Lakers are going to bring in someone for Bryant to play with. I have heard Garnett, but I think that would involve a pretty big trade and what do the Lakers have to deal?
— WildcatIKE 06/14/2007 08:46 AM #
I agree with you re: Hawes. I think that the Bulls will take him.
— Robert 06/14/2007 09:31 AM #
In college basketball, unlike pro basketball, the coach is responsible for both bringing in the players (establishing priorities, doing some of the recruiting himself, etc., etc.) and coaching them.
Bottom line: If a college basketball team underachieves relative to the projected talent of its players when they came out of high school, that means one of two things.
1. The players were not as good as people thought, which means the people that recruited them mis-identified their talent level. That’s on the coach.
2. The players were just fine but the coach couldn’t put them together and build a winning team. That’s on the coach too.
Another way of saying this is—thing about this in terms of falsifiability: what sort of evidence, to you, would represent evidence that Olsen is no longer the guy who can lead the Wildcats back to the Final Four?
I think if fans of Olsen laid out the type of performance by the team that would cause them to hold him responsible, it would help us move beyond this “Olsen is great/Olsen is terrible” debate
— Mike 06/14/2007 07:05 PM #
My criteria would be that if the Cats don’t make a couple deep runs in the NCAA tournament in the next couple years, OlsOn (not Olsen, would be nice if you knew how to spell the coach’s name correctly) Lute should call it quits. With guys like Bayless, Budinger, Jennings, Horne, Negedu, etc in the next couple of years, they should be able to put it together. The talent will be there, now we have to see if they can perform on the court. Yeah, the blame for the performance of the past two years lies squarely on Lute’s shoulders. However, the past four years were marked by more recruiting misses than hits, some relatively weak recruiting classes (for Arizona), and poor execution on the court. How many times did you see Shakur penetrate too deeply into the defense, stop, stutter, and then lose the ball because he dribbled too far into traffic.? Something like that isn’t something that Lute would all of the sudden forget to teach. As good of a kid that Shakur is, he struggled here, plain and simple. Tangara never has panned out (either due to a complete recruiting bust, or due to the back injury). Walters had a frustrating and unfortunate year, and he clearly could’ve helped the team this year in games like the Purdue one in the NCAA tournament. Jawann McClellan has been completely set back by his knee problems. Ndudi Ebi made a terrible choice, went to the NBA, and never set foot on campus. J.P. Prince transferred for whatever reason. Fendi Onobun seems to have been a recruiting bust, (but he apparently is a really good kid). Following my logic here? Doesn’t it seem like the Cats have had an unfortunate and atypical amount of problems the past couple of years? Let’s see what happens next year, the team is going to look a lot different…and hopefully they can get a big man in to plug up some holes in the lane.
— darren 06/14/2007 09:34 PM #
Darren, If the Cats get Whity, coupled with Jacobson they will have a nice combo set of big men. The last time the Wildcats were really, really good, they had a big man named Woods in the line-up. That has been missing for 7 years now. Imagine if you would, what this team would have been like in that game vs. Illinois if they would have had a 7 footer with some beef to go to down low in those final minutes when the presure was to much for the gaurds.
Frye was an outstanding college forward that played out of postion many times. Walters never helped. I just hope that Walters has grown up in a big way and contributes this season as big man should. I beleive the season could hinge on what he can provide in the low post because this Jacobson kid seems to be a project.
— WildcatIKE 06/15/2007 04:13 AM #
I have to disagree with you…no, not diasagree, you’re completely wrong. As I remember, everyone talked before that Illinois game about how James Augustine and the Illinois big guys would dominate Arizona, but it just wasn’t true. Channing Frye dominated down low in that game…the Cats stalled for the last 4 minutes of that game…they were just standing around, not running their offensive sets, and looked shell shocked when Illinois started making EVERYTHING that they shot. I don’t remember his exact line, but Frye was something like 10-14 in that game, completely dominating down there. We did have a guy to go down low in that game, but he just didn’t get the ball, Hassan Adams (for some strange reason) took the last shot, and then the door was opened for people to say that on that magical night in Chicago, Lute’s brains slipped out of his head and he lost his ability to coach. And I also take issue with your statement about the last time the team was ‘really good.’ So an Elite 8 team isn’t really good? I do agree that the 2008 class is very dependent on a big guy though.
— darren 06/15/2007 08:15 AM #
Good analysis.
Ike,
Darren is right on in his take re: the Illinois debacle. Frye had an awesome game and was unstoppable. Shakur straight up choked under the pressure and Lute failed to stop the bleeding by pulling him. The funny thing is, Chris Rodgers had a decent game against Illinois and beat the Illinois press with ease. It was clear that he was not shaken at all. To this day, I can’t figure out what the hell Lute was thinking but I blame him entirely for the debacle for failing to realize that Shakur was caught like a deer in the headlights and needed to be pulled.
— Robert 06/15/2007 10:39 AM #
As always I am defending my point. My point never stated that Frye was held in check – he had a heck of a game, instead I stated that if in those last few minutes, Arizona would have had another true big man NOT the Walters option either, to take presure off the gaurds and Frye, they might have come away with a victory. Instead we will debate this game for the rest of our lives or until another title comes to Tucson.
Lute truley was going to let his gaurds try to win that game. I think it sucked that they lost that game, but come on! For sure you can not blame the entire loss on the coach. Lute did have a melt down somewhat, but so did the five guys on the floor that night that were give instructions from the bench. The only thing I will blame Coach for, was not letting Salim take the last shot – it was like when Ditka gave the ball to the Fridge in Super Bowl XX instead of the man that got them there – PAYTON! Only difference – the Bears won that game.
Also, DARREN, I’m pretty sure a team that makes it to the Championship Game is regaurded as a “really good” team, not a team that had the taste of victory and swallowed defeat in a regional semifinal! The 2001 team was Really Good.
Point Blank – if Arizona would have won that game at the Allstate Arena and the next, it would have been very difficult to match up with UNC who clearly had the big man advantage and proved that with it’s win over the Illini for the title.
Hope I have cleared that up for you now.
— WildcatIKE 06/15/2007 11:42 AM #
WildcatIke—I know you have never said anything negative about Lute, etc. That is my point.
What I am interested in is the type of performance by the team over the next few years that would convince you that Lute has to go.
Darren—I really enjoyed reading your reply. That was a persuasive explanation, I think, of the problems they have had the last few years.
I know they have had problems and I really hope they can turn it around next year. I am willing to put this on Shakur not living up to expectations, along with Adams in some ways, etc., etc. My point is only that you can’t exclude the guy that recruits the players from blame when they don’t play well.
The team whose performance is truly odd, in some ways, is the 2004 team. That team had Iguodala and Frye, 2 NBA lottery picks, along with Stoudamire and Adams, two second round picks. 4 NBA draft picks, including two lottery picks, on the same roster and they couldn’t produce at all. . .
But by the same token, if they play much better over the next few years Lute should also get some credit.
— Mike 06/15/2007 01:05 PM #
— Trev in KC 06/15/2007 01:13 PM #
I agree with you that Lute was going to let the guards win that game. The problem was that is was the wrong guard. At the end of the game, the guards I want in are Salim and Rodgers, period. I think that had we beaten Illinois, there was a real good chance that we would have won the whole damn thing because up to the last three minutes of that game, the Cats were playing like the best team in the country.
To make matters worse, Lute maintained his confidence in Shakur and let this guy run the point until he graduated. What’s the definition of insanity? It’s doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. By playing Shakur from that Illinois game on, you could make the case that Lute was quite insane!
— Robert 06/15/2007 01:16 PM #
The Illinois game is still very relevant. It’s relevant in that the program hasn’t been the same since. That swagger and the intimidation factor that the UA used to bring hasn’t been around for a while and that collapse had a lot to do with it.
— Robert 06/15/2007 01:36 PM #
Arizona Wildcats
STARTERS MIN FGM-A FTM-A OFF REB AST PF PTS
H. Adams, G 37 9-13 2-3 4 8 5 3 21
I. Radenovic, F 29 4-6 4-4 1 5 2 2 13
C. Frye, C 44 11-14 1-2 3 12 1 1 24
M. Shakur, G 37 4-6 2-2 1 2 4 1 12
S. Stoudamire, G 39 2-13 4-4 0 5 7 1 9
BENCH MIN FGM-A FTM-A OFF REB AST PF PTS
J. McClellan, G 24 2-7 5-6 2 4 1 1 10
C. Rodgers, G 14 0-2 0-0 0 0 1 1 0
K. Walters, C 1 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0
TOTALS FGM-A FTM-A OFF REB AST PF PTS
32-61 18-21 11 36 21 10 89
52.5% 85.7%
TEAM REBS: 1
TURNOVERS: 17 (C Frye 2, S Stoudamire 2, H Adams 3, M Shakur 5, I Radenovic 3, J McClellan 2)
BLOCKED SHOTS: 8 (C Frye 6, I Radenovic 1, J McClellan 1)
STEALS: 11 (S Stoudamire 2, H Adams 1, C Rodgers 1, M Shakur 2, I Radenovic 4, J McClellan 1)
3-PT FGS: 7-18, .389 (C Frye 1-1, S Stoudamire 1-7, H Adams 1-3, C Rodgers 0-1, M Shakur 2-3, I Radenovic 1-1, J McClellan 1-2)
— Trev in KC 06/15/2007 01:42 PM #
5 turnovers? Unacceptable from anyone, let alone your point guard and two of those came in crunch time. I would have to go back and watch, but I think that Staf picked up his dribble. That will get you in trouble every timne.
— Robert 06/15/2007 01:49 PM #
moving on again…The year after the elite 8 debacle was Prince’s first year…he was supposed to be the heir apparent, but he didn’t have any work ethic of any substance, McClellan was injured and Rodgers was a headcase. Dillon was useful in spurts…so the point i’m trying to make here is: did lute play Shakur because he was the best? unfortunetly, yes. did he play him out of necessity? Yes…the one guy that could have altered that was J.P. Prince…but he decided not to work and waste his potential…Lute was more than happy to hand him the reins but he didn’t step up. and if we call Prince a recruiting miscue, well then we weren’t the only ones to make that mistake…remember he was the most sought after PG in the 05 class.
I think lute recruited 3 classes 03, 04, 05 featuring Shakur, Walters. McClellan, Dillon, Verdejo, Tangara, Williams, Fendi, and Prince, that suited a style that UA won with in the 90’s. Fast wing oriented players that could score from outside and open up space for under-sized faster post players to get in position for put-backs and drop in passes. Somewhere around the 04-05 season the style of play in the PAC-10 and the rest of college basketball changed to reflect the NBA game…with bigger stronger guys able to step out to 18 and muscle for rebounds…Look at Florida, Marvin Williams from NC. LSU with Tyrus Thomas made a huge run…the list goes on, and UA was a season late in catching up…
Today we have coming in
Alex Jacobsen 7 footer
Jamelle Horne 6’7/8 depending on what you read
Zane Johnsons 6’6
and Bayless
these are guys that can help play a more “Florida” style ball that is winning these days…all of them are long, big and rangy…to overuse the buzz words being thrown around college ball these days…add them to what we have both in the post and on the wing and we have a pretty good core of players…
bottom line is this, if we aren’t significantly better this year than we were last year, it is time to take a look at the head coaching position
— scott 06/15/2007 02:37 PM #
— Trev in KC 06/15/2007 02:43 PM #
— Trev in KC 06/15/2007 02:46 PM #
Can we just start a blog about the Arizona-Illinois game so Robert can keep all his comments about that game in just one spot?
— Button Salmon 06/15/2007 03:13 PM #
You can’t make it go away just be ignoring it. It was a seminal moment in history of UA basketball and it may very well have been the beginning of the end.
It ranks right up there with the Portland Trail Gangsta meltdown against the Lakers back in 2000. Portland spiraled into the toilet and only now does it seem like they will turn the page.
— Robert 06/15/2007 04:03 PM #
In fact, I for one firmly believe that game abso-lutely floored Shakur’s C-0-N-F-I-D-E-N-C-E and he never did recover his ‘mojo,’ relatively speaking. The main exception was the fantastic game he had against Villanova playing in his hometown of Philly.
But getting back to the gest of moi’s comment. Shakur was blatantly fouled just a few feet beyond the center court line. In fact, Dick Enberger made mentioned of that fact. To paraphase him…”Oh my, Shakur was just fouled…” And yes fouls are part of the game but I for one will give Shakur the benefit of the doubt in that particular game. Because he did play lights out in that game, with the exception of the final two minutes. Also,I recall Frye being abso-lutely mugged, which led to another Illini basket.
Fatigue, perhaps, contributed to the Wildcat ‘flame out’ in the last two minutes, because we basically played only seven players. Stoudamire, for one had absolutely no legs the last two minutes and it showed in O.T. In fact, when Hassan got caught in ‘no man’s land,’ Stoudamire realized this but just didn’t have the legs to come to the ball and save Arizona and Hassan. However, in retrospect, even if Salim would have broke open I doubt he would have made the shot because he had a poor shooting performance that afternoon in Chicago. But then again, perhaps the percentages would have swung his way.
Damn I feel low even thinking about that Elite 8 thriller. In fact, I had Coach Olson’s 7 playing North Carolina in the championship game in all of my brackets. But the individual players were abso-lutely more devastated than the typical loyal Wildcat fandom can begin to imagine. Just recall Hassan Adams saying he gave his heart and he gave his soul for the coachs and teammates in that game.
Bottom line, no doubt about it, these are still youngmen and sometimes the typical college hoops fandom can go ‘helter-skelter’ with the criticism.
— voice of lunacy 06/15/2007 04:12 PM #
So, perhaps, you are selling the main ingrediants of that particular Coach Olson squad ‘short!’ Because there were just too many overt and ‘covert’ factors, which played a role in that devastating lost. As Yo mentioned above, it was a surreal win by the Illini, nothing more and nothing less!
— voice of lunacy 06/15/2007 04:29 PM #
Skakur probably shouldn’t have made the pass at all. Illinois had to foul. Well, go ahead and make them do it, then. Shoot the free throws, win the game, go home. That’s what the great players do. Just ask Miles Simon. He demanded the damn ball in the crunch against UK and stepped up and knocked them down.
That’s the type of attitude that has been missing lately. Both Stoudamires had this intensity, as did Kerr, Mulbach, Arenas, Bibby, Simon, Terry, and one of my favorites, Jason Gardener.
— Robert 06/15/2007 04:46 PM #
— Trev in KC 06/16/2007 08:34 AM #
— RJ Rants 06/17/2007 06:40 AM #
This Robert crap is really getting old. Just another rehash of moronic statements from him.
Occasionally, he picks up the 1 odd supporter of his tired tirades. But that’s been the story here for some time, a bunch of sane people trying to talk sense to the mostly lone, insane wacko.
The good news for us and the bad news for wacko Robert is that Lute made a dramatic and apparently much needed coaching change.
That change coupled with a string of recruiting coups is certain to put a big frown on wacko Robert’s face in the comming seasons.
— vegasallen 06/17/2007 06:24 PM #
Yeah, you are right, a dramatic coaching change did just occur. The O’neill is now upon us. The King is dead, long live the King!
— Robert 06/17/2007 06:54 PM #
— vegasallen 06/17/2007 07:45 PM #
Please, please, please start another blog! This one is a little old, and while I enjoy reading about various “big man” prospects from contributing fellow bloggers it gets real old, real quick when the Social Lepers get into it, and go on, and on, ‘ad nauseum.’ They, (the social lepers)include, obviously, the extremely irritating,low class(no class?)triumphirate of marco,robert, and yeah vegas….got to include you too. Don’t you guys have any life? Sheeesh! Anyway…off this subject? Steve Kerr’s appointment with the Suns has to help our recruiting too, right?
— Al Mendoza 06/18/2007 07:30 AM #
Not including this reply to you, I have a whopping 3 posts of the 83 here but you still include me on your hate list.
Back off moron.
— vegasallen 06/18/2007 08:38 AM #
As for looking over the Wildcat major college hoops sites, it seems you’re engaging in the tactics of ‘censorship.’ Whatever happened to the 1st Amendment!? Just because vous venomously don’t agree with someone’s opinion regarding Arizona basketball, no need to play the ‘quasi-facist’ card. But then again, what does one expect from a state, which overwhelmingly voted for George W. Bush, in both past elections. Not implying that Bush has certain tendencies which signify an authoritatrian ‘quasi-facist’ personality profile.
— voice of lunacy 06/18/2007 09:52 AM #
The only guy that I personally dislike here is Mendoza.
They por old sap obviously has an alcohol soaked brain and he’s jumped on me twice for no reason whatsoever. Sounds like a carwash job is about all he can handle.
— vegasallen 06/18/2007 11:36 AM #
— RJ Rants 06/19/2007 06:24 AM #
I agree. You can tell that this blog is losing steam. You can tell by Marco’s last few posts. They are lacking the usual venom. Yeah, they are nasty, but they just seem to lack that edge to which we are all accustomed. As bad as Al got reemed, you can tell that Marco took something off. I mean, come one, that carwash resest is a tad weak. In fact, with the last post (93), he is getting downright conciliatory. It’s almost like he is feeling a little guilty for pounding on poor Al. It’s not like him and, I, for one, am a little concerned. Next thing you know, he is going to embrace Head Coach O’neill with open arms. I don’t know if I can stand him like this :)
— Robert 06/19/2007 01:23 PM #
What does anybody know about this Suzuki guy? All of a sudden, I am reading all these stories about him and his link to UA recruits. Hmmmmm. Hope the NCAA doesn’t start looking around here.
— Robert 06/19/2007 01:30 PM #
Your local press is now saying, get Kobe. What do you think now?
— Robert 06/19/2007 01:43 PM #
I’m hoping to get up to speed fast. thanks for your patience.
— Bruce Pascoe 06/19/2007 10:58 PM #
So once again, you are wrong – the local press is not saying, get Kobe at all. It is all speculation started by media in the Southern California area.
The Bulls orginzation knows if they made that deal – Kobe would simply be playing on a team simlar to the one he had last year in LA. Himself and a bunch of role players, which adds up to no championship. The Bulls have a bright future without Kobe, so I ask why in the hell would Paxson make that deal? He is much smarter than that.
If for some reason, something like this happens – I WILL EAT MY WORDS!
— WildcatIKE 06/20/2007 05:13 AM #
What about your fish hacks in the Chicago Sun Times? They seem to be suggesting that the Bulls should pull the trigger.
— Robert 06/20/2007 06:54 AM #
What’s the word about Shakur, Radenovic, and Williams chances in the draft? or are we to assume that your next, long overdue blog will be about this very topic (please make it soon!)
— scott 06/20/2007 08:13 AM #
I know you don’t like Chicago based on prior comments from you, thus you for sure could have never stepped foot on this precious soild in the mid-west, so being the fool you are, how could you know that the Sun Times is a 3rd rate paper in the Windy City – first source is always the Tribune, 2nd the Daily Hearld, I even read the RED EYE edition (not that you would ever know what that is) before I ever look into the Sun Times.
Sun Times is like a tabloide paper here, so get a clue and listen up, my message above was pretty clear – SAM SMITH knows all! He stated the facts and until I hear different from him, the rest is clearly speculation. I can’t speak for anyone or everyone in this city, but I would suppose not to many would be happy to see the Bulls give away the future just at a chance to see if Koke could spark a MJ over the next few year.
Final point – Kobe would have never won a championship without Shaq! He needs a guy like that or simlar to what Jordan had in Pippen to be successful. Point blank as I stated above, who would be left to help Kobe here in Chicago after such a deal? The Bulls are one player away from being the top team in the EAST… Kobe does not provide them that!
Thanks.
— WildcatIKE 06/20/2007 09:24 AM #
Why do you let Robert get to you? He is a computer geek that knows nothing about sports. Just likes to get on this Blog Board and stir up the pot with what he thinks is true and reality! Basically he lives in his own world and it is clear to me that he is not well liked or well respected around here.
You are from Chicago and seem to know more about what is going on in your city. Just leave it be and let him think what he wants.
The Lakers would be foolish to let Kobe go.
Peace!
DJ
— DYLAN JAY 06/20/2007 09:33 AM #
Yeah, they are one player away, and that player is Kobe Bryant. A combination of Nocione, Heinrich, and Bryant, and a bunch of role players win the east going away. I don’t think that they win the finals, but at least they get there and that’s a good thing for the NBA.
With the exception of the Pistons, the last 9 NBA titles went to teams with one superstar. Actually, these teams had more than one superstar. Lakers – Shaq and Kobe. Spurs – Duncan, Robinson, Ginobli, and Parker. Heat – D Wade and Shaq. With Kobe, Heinrich and Nocione will get wide open looks.
Bottom line, the Bulls will not even get a whif at an NBA title as constituted. You say they are one player away. If not Kobe, then what player out there puts the Bulls over the top?
— Robert 06/20/2007 10:02 AM #
Get a life. I thought you said a couple of months ago that you were going to remove yourself from this blog until next season? Don’t you have a job or something else to do?
— Nate 06/20/2007 10:43 AM #
Yes, I did state that I was going to remove myself. However, after further reflection, I thought that if Number 45 can retire, and then come back, then I can too. If the Zen master can leave the game, write a book blasting Kobe and them come back for a three year run, then I too can return to this blog. If the Tuna can quit coaching only to come back and coach America’s team, I too can come back and opine about the hiring of Head Coach O’neill.
Although, I must admit, the dog days of summer are right around the corner and I may have to remove myself from this blog for the next couple of months until late August or so. I don’t know, we will see how it goes. You never know, the Cats may land a big man for 08 or something like that.
— Robert 06/20/2007 11:15 AM #
— Trev in KC 06/20/2007 01:51 PM #
— Robert Mar 1, 3:37pm #
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— vegasallen 06/20/2007 03:18 PM #
— Robert 06/20/2007 03:36 PM #
— trevor wells 06/20/2007 09:40 PM #