Monday’s story on the Cool Church has attracted a lot of attention.
The church uses what many say are dubious studies to make claims about the health and welfare of gays and lesbians. Among other things, church pastor David McAllister says that only 1 percent of gays and lesbians will die of old age.
Interspersed with that message is McAllister’s claim that God says it’s wrong to be gay — an assertion that certainly has been the subject of longheld, exhaustive debate.
Cool Church parishioners quoted in the article stressed that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin.
And it’s true that a lot of people read the Bible that way.
But there is another viewpoint.
The Bible was originally written in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, and has gone through many translations since then.
The word “homosexual” did not emerge until the 19th century, leaving the translations open to interpretation by translators and publishers.
The article had included a response from the Rev. David Wilkinson of St. Francis in the Foothills United Methodist Church, but his comments were cut from the story due to space.
Here’s what he said:
“When you interpret the Bible literally it’s abusive to women, minorities, gays and anyone on the periphery,” he said. “To condemn someone by misconstruing the Bible as literal — that is an abomination.”
Of course, Wilkinson was referring to that oft-quoted passage from Leviticus 18:22: “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”
Like other issues in the Bible, such as whether women can be ordained, Bible readers have differing views on what Scripture says about homosexuality. In the past, religious leaders have pointed to Scripture as “proof” to justify slavery and the subservience of black people, to deny equality to women and to condemn interracial marriage.
With respect to gays and lesbians, many scholars and religious leaders say the Bible’s writers would have had no concept of the committed same-gender relationships that exist today, and that biblical references that appear to condemn homosexuality were in the context of gang rape or purely sexual acts.
In the Old Testament story of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis, some Christians say, homosexual practices bring about horrible divine vengeance. More liberal readers of the Bible say the story is an example of using gang rape to humiliate the foreigner and that the sin in the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah is inhospitality toward strangers.
Another biblical text often cited is in Romans 1: 24-27 in the New Testament when Paul is addressing the idolatry of the gentiles and God gives the gentiles up to “degrading passions” expressed in same-sex relations. Critics say the “passions” are a result of idolatry and excessive desire, not homosexual orientation and relationships we know today.
It’s clear from the mail the Star is receiving about the article that feelings on both sides of the debate are strong.
“It’s clear from the mail the Star is receiving about the article that feelings on both sides of the debate are strong.”
I would think so too but on your opinion page today your Editor chose to publish 5 letters against The Tucson Commuity Church (The Cool Church) and only one in support of the church. Is this an indication of your “unbiased” reporting?
I was interested to find that all of the persons that spoke out against the church, in your story, were members of Wingspan or a long time supporter of Wingspan.
The study quoted by Dr. Stephen T. Russell deals only with the increase of same sex couples reporting their status to the US cemsus and same sex couples and child rearing, it does not deal with Homesexual longivity.
I also found your choice of a practing homosexual, Rev. Nicholson, as the spokesperson for the Tucson Christian community at large, unusual.
I guess that this was just another example of your fair and unbiased reporting.
Rev. David Wilkinson of St. Francis in the Foothills United Methodist Church own Governing body states that “The practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching.”
I have been a member of The Tucson Community Church for almost thirteen years and I have never heard Pastor David tell us to go out and smite the Homosexual. If you had gone to the web page and read it, you would have seen in the very first paragraph. “Welcome to our “Homosexual sex facts” page. Please understand that at TCC, we love people and want to help them to be everything that God intended for them to be when He created them. This being the case, we have no desire with the following information to try and attack or hurt someone who is involved in homosexual sex – quite the contrary – our intention is first to try and help to set them free from the sin of homosexuality and the subsequent tragic consequences associated with homosexual sex – this is an act of love”
Come out to one of the services and see for your self what Pastor David teaches and what we believe.
You ask for my comments so I gave them to you.
PS this link will let you know what the other religions think about Homosexuality.
Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominational_positions_on_homosexuality
A church using the bible to justify a degradation of any group is a sin. Fred Phelps uses the same bible references you do to justify his hate language towards the gay and lesbian community.
You are one step away from protesting with “God Hates Fags” signs. What a wonderful image your children are being introduced to. You must be so proud.
— TB 07/05/2007 07:52 PM #
POSTER #1:
“I would think so too but on your opinion page today your Editor chose to publish 5 letters against The Tucson Commuity Church (The Cool Church) and only one in support of the church. Is this an indication of your “unbiased” reporting?”
Maybe that’s because 85% of the responders were outraged while a minority of readers supported the TCC.
— bah 07/05/2007 08:37 PM #
We all must remember that sripture was directed by the Creator and given to man but interpreted through the lenses of man’s experience. That itself explains all the contradictions that exist in the interpretations of scripture.
It cannot be helped that the Creators’ message was colored by the prejudices and opinions of the time. Keeping this in mind, it underscores the dangers of a literal translation of scripture. As another reader pointed out in another post, interpreted literally…the bible is discriminatory to women, minorities etc. That is a attitude of the times which has colored the interpretation of the Creators’ message.
One thing though I believe is clear…whatever judges, oppresses, or otherwise seeks to proclaim superiority at the expense of another, does not follow the very basic fundamentals of the Creators’ Law.
— JK 07/05/2007 08:51 PM #
TB. I published my Name. How about you?
Did you read the Web Page? Did you check out the studies?
Can you present me with any facts to show that the over 95 studies are all bad science?
Or is it just empty rhetoric because you don’t agree with the studies so they must be wrong?
— Charles Roth 07/05/2007 08:57 PM #
Tb. I must apologize. I did not realize that it is the practice of this blog to allow posters to say anything they want and not have the courage to give their real name.
— Charles Roth 07/05/2007 09:07 PM #
God gave the Bible to be understood literally. By treating the Bible as symbolic allows the truth of God to be removed from its proper context and used to “prove” anyone’s personal pretext. Jesus endorsed the literal understanding of the Bible when he spoke to the issue of human relationships in the gospel of Matthew chapter 19. In that chapter he reinforces the literal teachings of the Old Testament that all sexual activity outside of the marriage relationship of one man to one woman is wrong. Since God desires only that which is best for all people, He warns against those issues in life that prove to be destructive. Some call this narrow. I see it as trying to protect those whom God loves.
— Rev. Todd Wallace 07/05/2007 09:24 PM #
What perfect timing! I just got this old letter to Dr. Laura today that underscores Christians selective acceptance of the literal truth of the bible. Let the smiting begin!
Dear Dr. Laura:
>
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding
God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries
to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need
some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other
specific laws
and how to follow them:
>
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned
in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
>
Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both
male and
female, provided they are purchased from neighboring
nations. A friend
of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not
Canadians. Can you
clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
>
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.
Exodus 35:2
clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally
obligated to kill
him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality.
I don’ t agree.
Can you settle this?
>
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God
if I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading
glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
>
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including
the hair
around their temples, even though this is expressly
forbidden by Lev.
19:27. How should they die?
>
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig
makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
>
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two
different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing
garments made of
two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He
also tends to
curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go
to all the
trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? – Lev.24:10-16.
Couldn ’ t we just burn them to death at a private family
affair like we
do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
>
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am
confident you
can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God ’ s word
is eternal
and unchanging.
>
Your devoted fan,
Jim
— Bruce Hilpert 07/05/2007 10:15 PM #
There are two central arguments that must be considered regarding this subject. What must be first considered is whether or not the Scriptures are the authoritative Word of God. Historical Christianity attributes all scripture as being divinely inspired, using men who were prompted by and devoted first to the Hebrew God for the Old Testament scripture, and to the same God through Jesus Christ for the writings of the New Testament.
If God is the divine author of the Bible, then the words written in the Bible are true, and they are not ours to interpret at our own discretion. If God is not the author of the Scriptures, then we are free to interpret in whatever subjective way we see fit. In light of that, there are rules of interpretation (hermeneutics)which still allow for a normative literal interpretation of Scripture. For example, prophesy, for the most part, tends not to be literal, but rather uses pictorial language to paint general ideas and principles. Sin, however, is almost always presented directly, specifically, and, dare we say, literally.
If God is the author and final authority, and what the bible says is true (in absolute terms, not as a post-modern construct of our own desire) then based upon scripture references in Gen. 19, Lev. 18:22, 1 Cor. 6:9-11, Gal 5:19-21, Eph. 5:3-5, 1 Tim. 1:9-10, and Jude 7, same sex sexual activity is sin. If the bible is only the words of man, it is open to preferential subjective interpretation, and we are all just players in pluralistic polytheism.
Which leads to the second argument. Pluralism is based upon all different ideas having equal validity. If that is the case, then those who are opposed to homosexuality on moral or religious grounds have just as equal footing at the table as any other viewpoint. If the voices in opposition of homosexuality are to be silenced, those in favor of homosexuality are guilty of exclusivity just as much as those they are trying to silence. If you claim that any who are in biblical opposition to homosexuality are intolerant and therefore are wrong, you are also practicing intolerance against their viewpoint. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t point the finger of intolerance at others without becoming guilty of intolerance yourself. True tolerance allows dissenting points of view to be heard, even if those points of view are neither popular or politically correct.
Finally, in addressing an issue in the blog itself,
the writers of scripture (especially during the first century)were fully aware of what same sex relationships were, as they were writing in the midst of a Greek and Roman culture that generally accepted and embraced homosexuality as a cultural norm. So the first century writings of the church were still in opposition to same gender sexual relationships whether the words of God or the writings of men.
— Al Addleman 07/05/2007 10:25 PM #
I’m still awed that the editors believed the original article/blog was worthy of publication. Hate speech under the guise of religion is not newsworthy unless people in Tucson are completely without a clue as to this brand of oppression. The “Cool Church” (choke) is not unique in its teachings or hiding behind selective Biblical interpretations to condemn homosexuality. I strongly disagree with such beliefs, as apparently do most people who have chosen to express themselves to the Star.
Give this a rest and address something more important like civil liberties for gays and lesbians.
— jjm 07/06/2007 01:10 AM #
I have found that those who shout the anti gay stuff from the rooftops are the gayest of the gay themselves. I bet there is a lot of leather in the closets of the cool church people. I saw that pastor dude with the mullet at taco bell and I could have sworn I heard him humming “macho man” by the Village people under his breath.
— Chris s. 07/06/2007 04:58 AM #
The author’s question about the Levitical terms used to describe homosexual behavior was answered fully by Mr. Addleman. I would add two points. First, for meanings, one should not consult either the Vulgate or the Jamesian translation. Both are ultimately based on the Septuagint, which receieved its first, and arguably most knowledgable treatment by the early Jewish sages. As contemporaries of the language, they understood its nuances in ways that otherwise would have been lost. Under the earliest rabbinical interpretations, same sex meant then what it means now. For additional proof, one has only to consult the Maccabean books, where the text is quite clear that the desecrations introduced by Syrio-Greeks into Jerusalem included the notorious “gymnasiums,” which were centers of homosexual activity.
But outside of this historical context what is most disturbing is jjm’s post. By decrying “Hate speech under the guise of religion” he provides an important clue about the future of Hate Speech Codes, so beloved by the left. Where introduced, these statutes will eventually be used to vigorously suppress religious speech that the favored minorites find unwelcome. Religious Jews, evangelicals, Catholic clergy, anyone who preaches favorably about the Levitical prohibitions will find themselves on the receiving end of the one hate speech favored by the left—the bankrupting lawsuit.
Take it from this Jew—our people have had long experiece with this, beginning around 150 B.C.E. when the Syrio-Greeks made their first attempts to outlaw us because our practices offended them.
— Richard 07/06/2007 05:11 AM #
#4
“We all must remember that sripture was directed by the Creator and given to man but interpreted through the lenses of man’s experience.”
That is just your opinion. I believe that your scriptures were written by man.
— Pete Gonzalez 07/06/2007 06:06 AM #
To say that God intended the entire Bible to be taken literally is poor Biblical scholarship. In that case, God would have feathers (the mother hen comment of Jesus), bushes would speak and hold elections (Old Testament parable of vegetation trying to choose a king), etc. The Bible contains many types of literature, some of it parabolic, others allegorial. Insisting that scripture be taken 100% literally would then force many heterdox Christian churches to return to an understanding of Transubstantiation in the Eucharist, or at the very least, Sacramental Unionism. I don’t see the churches which stand so solidly behind literalism taking a Roman Catholic approach to sacraments.
Not everyone shares the exact view of many issues in Scripture. The theology of the Left Behind books isn’t as universally accepted as many people think, there are 2 major views on eschatology (amillennialism being the most widely held, by the way, in opposition to LaHaye and Jenkins).
I think that God will survive the argument over homosexuality. I think that God will survive Republican/Democrat/Conservative/Liberal bickering. I think that God will survive knowing that many people hold to a wide spectrum of Biblical interpretation.
According to Ezekiel, the sin of Sodom was injustice and inhospitality. How much are so-called Christian churches willing to work for the rights of gays and lesbians, and how much welcome do they extend.
Sodomy isn’t just about deviant sex. It’s about violence against the stranger.
I wish that the same churches that crow about the shortened lifespans of gays and lesbians would put as much energy into making sure their own members don’t drop dead from coronary diseases. Or is a heterosexual dead from clogged arteries more acceptable to God than a healthy homosexual?
Don’t discount the existence of gay and lesbian Christians, neither. Not all of them are godless liberals.
— Rev. Tom 07/06/2007 06:56 AM #
I’ve been to that Cruel Church. I can’t say it was anything spectacular. Just another melded, non-descript form of religious entertainment. It just seems that they just make sure that their members understand how wonderful they are, and how terrible everyone else is.
Pardon me if I don’t feel compelled to be under their religious authority. I have my own church, a Christ-centered, Grace-grounded community of faith that seeks to bring justice and compassion into a harsh world.
What makes them different than any of the other cookie-cutter churches? Not much.
— Joshua 07/06/2007 07:19 AM #
I have this theory …. the earth has not ben visited by UFO’s for some time. The reason – they have concluded many years ago that indeed, there is no intelligent life here. Or, to be more specific, they are waiting for this species to evolve.
— DB 07/06/2007 07:37 AM #
I doubt if the “cool church” gave any real thought to the crap they preach on their web site.
There is nothing original there, it is just a big “cut and paste” from christian hate groups like the FRC.
I see exactly the same text on the sites of dozens of other fundamentalist christian churches.
And when you think about it there is very little practical difference between what the “cool” church preaches and what Tucson’s Catholic Bishop preaches.
It isn’t simply a failure to “love” – it is a blatant disregard of the commandments these people claim to hold in high regard – in particular the sin of bearing false witness against your neighbor.
Im always amazed that when it comes to gay people these christians are happy to spread any derogatory lie they come across.
— Patrick ONeill 07/06/2007 08:04 AM #
Well, churches like theirs like to preach a “health and wealth” gospel. If that’s so, they should gladly invite gays and lesbians, people with higher disposable incomes than the average population. It’s a known fact that gays and lesbians are extremely generous to causes they hold dear, and very eager to volunteer.
But, what else to expect from churches that still teach that women should be silent in church, and still have people who supported segregation. Funny how the churches that oppose gay rights also opposed women’s rights, civil rights, etc.
If they had their way, women would still be silent, blacks would still have separate drinking fountains, and gays wouldn’t even be allowed in the bus.
I guess their rejection of evolution includes anything new in their brains, too.
I’m a gay Christian. I’m not forced to worship in their religious compounds.
— Joshua 07/06/2007 08:46 AM #
“Monday’s story on the Cool Church has attracted a lot of attention.”
“It’s clear from the mail the Star is receiving about the article that feelings on both sides of the debate are strong.
Any thoughts?”
Yeah. Stephanie Innes is a manipulative, using troll. After how many months of “blogging” she finally found her little hot button. There’s nothing new here—it’s been going for centuries.
— Den Hauser 07/06/2007 10:56 AM #
Everyone has fallen short, all of us have gone astray. Homosexuals is not the issue here, its all of us. How many times has the quote unquote Christian say I only get drunk when I get upset, or when I’m happy. I only cheat on my wife when she abstains from me, I don’t think liars are going to hell I am a lawyer for goodness sakes. My boy friend and I have protected sex and we love each other so it’s ok. I have never met a homosexual or anyone else who battles the flesh that reads their bible and seeks the Lord for answers. Ask Jesus into your life and God will direct you. Its a sin issue here not whether your homosexual or another one of the many sins we all battle with. The problem with the scriptures it tends to deliver a convicting messages only for those who battle with their sin, my advice is to acknowledge your sin first and allow God to mold into the image that you were created to be. No spin!
— Rob 07/06/2007 10:56 AM #
Let’s look at this debate from another angle: Homosexuality is NOT normal.
Let’s also quote scripture: “In the beginning made them He male and female.”
But then again I know what the retort will be: “That’s according to your interpretation.”
It’s a no brainer. Have you considered that only a male and a female can produce a child?
And this is for Joshau: “I am a gay Christian.” That is an oxymoron.
And say what you want about the “cool church” though I have never visited I do commend them for standing up in our age of political correctness.
What Jess doesn’t realize is that Jess=Hitler
— Den Hauser 07/06/2007 02:02 PM #
What most people don’t seem to understand about Christians is that we are taught to love everyone as Christ loves us. However, we are to hate the sin in their life. God made everyone including Satan. He made Satan as the most beautiful and intelligent of all creation, does He still love him? Of course, He just hates the sin in his heart and life. The Bible makes a statement that nothing can separate us from the love of God for He will always love us. But if our life is one against His teachings and desires, our self imposed punishment will be separation from His presence, not His love. I try to love all mankind, and I pray for the sin in their life. Having heard Pastor David speak I think I can say that he feels the same way. God bless.
— Dan 07/06/2007 04:25 PM #
And I’m still glad I belong to a Christ-centered, Grace-grounded church.
Still a gay Christian, by the way.
You have no say in that.
— Joshua 07/06/2007 05:09 PM #
I am glad you go to church, I am not sure if the church you are going too teaches the word of God. I am always concern when churches teach a gospel thats friendly towards all, the truth is that the gospel of Christ is hard to follow. The bible declares that Jesus, no other is capable to forgive you of your sin, and its Jesus who we must follow no other religion, it is the bible that states that Jesus and God are One. Homosexuality is Sin. The good news will be hard, it requires you and your friend to repent and ask Jesus into your heart and ask the Holy Spirit to give you strenth. I will be praying for you Joshua, your friend Rob
— Rob 07/06/2007 09:39 PM #
I do not understand the whole controversy around this topic. How can anyone read the Bible and not get that homosexuality is wrong along with a whole bunch of other activities. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is very clear:
“Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
It does not leave much to interpretation; in fact it seems quite clear. Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God as well as thieves, covetous, drunkards, revielers, or extortioners. Let’s get off the question of homosexuals for a second and go to the next sin listed. No thieves will enter the kingdom of God. The question that should come to mind is “have I ever stolen anything?” If the answer is yes, then what does that make you? A thief! Quantity does not qualify a sin. I don’t think that any one of us can say that we have never stolen anything. Next is covetous. Have you ever coveted anything? I can see this sin just when I dish out ice cream to a bunch of kids. Homosexuality is an easy one to point our finger at since it is a sin that many of us do not struggle with. Unfortunately, for myself, I can not say that about many of the other sins in that list. Remember what James 2:10 says:
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
That makes my sinful past as abhorrent to God as any homosexual’s. Romans 3:10 is clear that we are all guilty. However, there is hope. Let’s not stop at 1 Corinthians 6:10, let’s continue to verse 11:
“And such were some of you. But you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”
The key is that there is forgiveness for those sins, any of them. There is a way out. 1 John 1:9 states:
“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
However, for those that look at their sin and claim that God is going to accept me just as I am, an unrepentant, unchanging sinner there is 1 John2:4:
“He who says, I have known Him, and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
— Doug G 07/06/2007 10:21 PM #
I attended a Cool Church service once, (several years ago) therefore, I hold no allegiance to it. However, after reading the article in the paper, I applaud the church for it’s open moral conviction against the acts of homosexuality.
Jesus gave us the ultimate example of love toward all sinners in Mark 2:14-17. When Jesus was questioned about associating with sinners, He clearly stated (Mark 2:17) “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” As it relates in with this discussion, I believe the key of Mark 2:17 is repentance.
As an example, I will use myself (a bible-based Christian) as a witness to the repentance process. When I sin, (whether it is an intentional sin or when I am weak and choose not to pray through my areas of struggle) I am ultimately heartbroken by my sin-filled actions and I wholehearted repent (defined as change of mind, heart, and conduct). The Lord, in His awesome saving love forgives me of this sin and I ask the Lord to give me strength the next time I am tempted in that particular area. However, when someone chooses to live within a homosexual lifestyle, this choice is a rejection of the repentance process altogether, as there is no intention of a directional change in mind, heart, or conduct.
As a Christian, I try to follow the “love the sinner, hate the sin” practice. And, although I understand that a few may view my comments as “intolerant” or “hate speech”, nothing can be further from the truth.
When a rescue worker reaches a hand out across dangerous waters to save someone who is in peril, it is never considered a hateful act. Nor should a witness (to set someone free from the chokehold of sin) be considered hateful act as the loss of eternity is more important than the loss of one’s earthly existence.
— Sheryl 07/06/2007 11:59 PM #
#8…um….Dr Laura is Jewish, not Christian.
This is day 4 on this topic….but who’s counting? (Yawn!)
Why doesn’t everyone just attend The Cool Church tomorrow and engage in this debate in person?
Let the AZ Daily Star get on with reporting on something else.
— Annie H 07/07/2007 09:15 AM #
I think it’s very strange that anyone would be shocked that a church would take a stand on homosexuality. There are very few churches anywhere that don’t recognize homosexual sex as wrong, destructive and sinful. (Maybe some of them just don’t want to speak up) For that matter, the majority of people in America don’t believe homosexuality is okay. It might not seem that way reading THIS paper but everyone knows there’s a liberal bias goin’ on at the Star. Some of the people writing letters to the editor stated that even Jesus didn’t address the issue of homosexuality which is true BUT you have to understand the culture of the time. Homosexuality was totally accepted as an abomination and was punishable by death. Jesus didn’t waste his time teaching on this issue because it WASN’T an issue. Everyone knew it was wrong. However, it DOES say in the New Testament that homosexuality is a sin (1Corinthians 6:9-10 and Romans 1:24-32). Stephanie Innes mentioned that the Bible doesn’t use the word “homosexuality”, okay fine. It does however, describe the act in Romans 1;24ff~ “for this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural funcion for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural funciton of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiveing in their own persons the due penalty of their error.” That’s pretty clear. People have been trying to discredit the entire Bible saying that we’re (Christians) picking and choosing what we will follow. Thier basis for this is that we don’t “Keep the Sabboth”. What you have to understand is that the OT was written to the Jewish nation and was very specific to them. They didn’t have a government ~ it was a theocracy, which means they were under God. That’s why there’s so much specific direction to the Jews in the OT as well as animal sacrifices for sin ~ stuff we don’t do today. When Jesus came into the world and became the ultimate sacrifice for sin, He changed EVERYTHING. For the first time, we had something called GRACE and all people had the opportunity to make a connection with God, not just the Jewish nation. You didn’t have to be a Jew and you didn’t have to go the temple to pray. Because of Jesus, we are no longer under the OT law which is why we don’t have capital punishment for adultery, homosexuality, rebellious children, etc. Jesus changed everything and now it’s all about getting right with God through Jesus and living consistently right for Him. We follow what is restated in the New Testament. People need to know that David McAllister has NEVER taught anyone to hate anyone (I’ve been attending TCC for 14 years). He has spent his life leading people to understand God, Jesus and the Bible. He teaches people in his church to love and respect all people ~ to view people the way God views them ~ as priceless. Pastor David doesn’t hate homosexuals but he is not gonna say that homosexual sex is okay. God tells us in the Bible not to get involved in homosexual sex because it will mess up our life and pull us away from Him. This is the same message that David McAllister teaches ~ God wants something better for you, this lifestyle will hurt you and ultimately will pull you away from God. David is all about getting the truth into peoples hands, what they do with it is up to them. TCC is very “hands off” ~ they just want the truth available. And by the way, this issue rarely even comes up at TCC. But if it does come up in the text for that week’s teachings, Pastor David doesn’t pander to anyone and he doesn’t compromise God’s Word(there are lots of other issues that make people uncomfortable as well, not just this one) He tells you exactly what the Bible says. You can always count on that.
Kim, proud member of TCC
— Kim 07/07/2007 12:49 PM #
The articles written by the editor were obviously extremely biased. Stephanie Innes neglected to mention that her source for validation of her facts was none other then one of the executive board leaders of Wingspan, Stephen T. Russell, and a practicing homosexual himself. Not to mention that Wingspan financially supports the Daily Star. The reality of this statement would cause us to wonder if maybe Stephanie Innes pushed toward one side of the debate. I believe the answer is pretty obvious. I’ve attended the Cool Church for many years now and I found that Pastor David is a man of great integrity, knowledge, and love. With the church being one of the fastest churches growing in America it’s hard for me to believe that he is this evil conniving man that some of you are making him out to be. Some have stated that he “hates” the LGBT community. That is SO FAR from the truth. He has stated multiple times that he loves the people themselves but he knows what they are involved in is harmful to their life so he cares enough to tell them the truth, EVEN though it may not be exactly what they want to hear. People respect those who stand up for what is right whether or not you like hearing it. If you love someone you tell them the truth to help them to improve their life and make it the best that it can be. If you want to be blissfully ignorant in the facts that have been shown then that is your choice but Pastor David is sharing his knowledge and research with those who need help. Many have been quick to shoot down Pastor David’s facts but I’m curious as to where all of the research is of the opposing side. Pastor David did his research and has cited all the facts which were stated. I have not seen the written and cited facts of the opposing side. It is the constant denial that Pastor David’s are false. It seems like all were getting on the opposing side are “not uhs” and “he’s wrong,” answers that carry no weight.
I just wanted to shed some light from the other side. He is a GREAT man and deserves more respect then you’re giving him!!
It is mind boggling to a normal, average intellegence person that reads his bible to think that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is about being unfriendly to foreigners, WOW! Who is this Wilkerson? How can he hold any degree from an accredited bible college? I could ask my elementary students to read the story and I am convinced they would be grossed out at the thought of the true meaning of this story. Gang rape? Are you kidding me? Lot offered his daughter who was a virgin and the men from the town said No! We want those men to have sex with them. Does it get any plainer than this. Maybe Wilkerson should go back to bible college and ask his professer if he really meant that or was he joking and assumed Wilkerson age 18 would figure it out. Maybe the story is about hide and go seek, and the town people got mad because they made it to Lots house first. This whole thing is not about whether gays are Christians, or this or that, it is about Jesus! Get down on your knees right where you are and ask Jesus into your heart!
— Rob 07/07/2007 04:52 PM #
I’ve been going to The Cool Church for seven years. I really enjoy it and I’ve learned so much about the Bible and being a Christian. It’s funny how this article talks about homosexuality likes it’s a big issue for this church. I can think of only a few times when it was even discussed and one of them was last week after Wingspan sent out it’s hateful attack letter to raise funds for their organization.
Some comments have accused Pastor David of being a money grubber out to get in your wallet. Once again, I’ve heard him discuss tithing twice in seven years. Both times he started off by saying he felt uncomfortable talking about the subject, but it was in the Bible and he wanted to cover everything. As a guest of TCC, you’ll be told not to contribute anything, just relax and listen to the message of the day. They don’t even pass a plate, there’s a box in the back you can put money in if you want to help out with costs. This week there’s a fundraiser for the Crisis Pregnancy Center and everyone is gathering up their change and filling up baby bottles with the money.
An amazing thing happened this week for me. I have a Cool Church sticker on my car and a lot of people came up to me telling me they thought it was great publicity and they admire a church that stands up for what they believe instead of trying to be politically correct. One person did approach me and said they thought my church was full of hate. I invited them to come on Sunday and find out for themselves instead of trusting a biased newspaper article. They said they didn’t want to do that. Didn’t surprise me at all.
Most of what you could learn at TCC has to do with how to live your life and deal with all the stuff that happens in our world every day. Homosexuality is actually a very, very, very small part of that.
— William 07/07/2007 05:37 PM #
Those who have responded to the articles in favor of what the Bible stands for have spoke with kindness and compassion. I believe it is noteworthy that the anger and hostility come from those who support the Wingspan side. This issue is not about David McAllister or the Cool Church. It’s not about Wingspan or the GLTB’s. It’s about God’s word and there is no disputing that. We will all be faced with the truth at the end of this life. Are you willing to bet your soul for eternity that the Bible is wrong? I’ve attended TCC for 14 years now and I am a better person because of it. TCC did not seek out this attention. The issue was brought to light by Wingspan who feels strongly that their followers should band together and do something to stop a group of people who believe in a life style different then theirs. They have stirred up negative rhetoric and animosity toward Christian’s that believe in the Bible. I feel that they would be happier if we were forced to adhere to a “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy when it comes to our belief in the word of God. Am I the only one to see the irony in this?
— Lory 07/07/2007 08:28 PM #
Let’s see here, so far….33 comments on this blog….11 negative toward The Cool Church. Letters to the editor (that were published) 6 of which 5 were negative toward The Cool Church. Now, today, I see two more negative letters. Tell me Arizona Daily Star editorial staff, do you really think the people of Tucson are going to fall for it?
Where can I find a newspaper that reports with integrity rather than reports in such a way to get their readers to think like they do?
Don’t you believe it Tucson, many, many more people support the position of The Cool Church than the Arizona Daily Star is letting on.
Lory I too, notice, the tone of the letters for and against. Makes a person wonder where the hate really is.
As for my attitude toward people who practice homosexuality….I love you, God loves you…change is possible, through Jesus Christ.
p.s. to those who are commenting…...more paragraphs, please, makes it easier to read.
— Jennifer 07/08/2007 09:42 AM #
gays among others practice an alternative lifestyle. alternitive to what? why normal of course. the tcc does a lot of good in the community. none of tcc’s teachings say to hate anyone yet look what the responses from the other side are doing. i also thought it unusual but predictable of the star to show its bias in the response letters
— alan kay 07/08/2007 02:05 PM #
Thank you Stephanie Innes, I just came from the COOL CHURCH this morning and service was packed. Even though you have clearly attempted to shove your oppinion down the throats of your readers, it appears they want to see what the COOL CHURCH has to offer. SPEAK THE TRUTH IN LOVE that is what we do. Unfortunely, you along with many of those who have blogged before cannot say the same. It would be great if you could supply us with some facts to back up your oppinions. As Lory stated ” Are you willing to bet your soul for eternity that the Bible is wrong?” We are praying for all of you.
Andrea
— Andrea 07/08/2007 02:58 PM #
Everyone that is bloging for The Cool Church I have to say thank you. It is so cool seeing you talking a stand right next to TCC! I urge more of you to do the same. So much good points have been made by all of you.
One thing I have not seen is the tolerance from the homosexual side of the blog.
The thing that the homosexuals always scream about is tolerance. Now the gays are yelling about TCC’s so called intolerance and telling TCC to stop teachin in something that we christians believe in. That seems very intolerant and hypocritical.
Now the gay side would say that we are not being tolerant, so why should they have to. Well the reason is that we do not demand tolerance. We have never demanded tolerance, gays have and therefore should do the same for others. We do demand our right to free speech, just as homosexuals do, and have. TCC is not saying that homosexuality should be outlawed, TCC is trying to get people out of a dangerous lifestyle. Which is the loving thing to do.
Christians should take a stand on the issues because of God and what is right and wrong. It would be easy to sugar coat some issues like homosexual issues, sex before marriage, murder, and other hot topic issues to try and make everybody feel ok. Unfortunately that would not be doing what God says.
So again I would like to say good job to all the pro TCC blogers. Good job on doing the right thing even though it is the hard thing and continue to pray that God works this for good. Continue to pray for TCC and christins as a whole.
— Jake 07/08/2007 05:12 PM #
Hi my name is Nancy and I have been going to the “COOL CHURCH” for a year now…..Thank*you Pastor David, Pastor Andy, Pastor Juan ..Thank*you for helping me find Jesus! I wrote to the newspaper I suppose I`m one of those so called 5 letters in favor of the church tuesday and of course it wasn`t published so here is…. Hi my name is Nancy and I proudly attend TCC Church “The Cool Church” with my family. Just for the record The Church does not CATER to young people “The church CATERS to God” and “The Church” are us “the attendees! The Bible and what God says is what is taught. If the Bible says “ its sin” Lev. 18:22****Lev. 20:13******1 Cor. 6:9-10,
Rom. 1:26-28*****that’s what it is. God [Our parent, Our Father} makes the rules not man, Satan tried to…… and look were he’s at! We are all sinners and to be a child of God we accept Jesus and follow him and try and obey [follow the rules] . Some of us stumble quite frequently But the good news is …. Jesus is their to save us! Pastor David is really understandable and making the bible come alive! I thoroughly enjoy my Sunday church and finding out about God. The information of why homosexuality is out there is what I do as a parent for my kids. If they are doing something wrong that God has said is a sin “I” show them why they shouldn’t do it….….what happens if they do it…..….where it leads to……...how it affects people around them……….and find the help they need to stop it…and monitor them until they are able to stand on there own….that’s what a good parent does, much like Pastor David and Pastor Andy and Pastor Juan. As for “love thy neighbor” we do ! there is no condemnation shouting or screaming just “it is sin” come to Jesus. The organization “Southern Poverty Law Center” on the web has the founder Morris Dees as being not to honest when I tried to find out more about the article you wrote. Thanks for letting me be heard, and please come to church!Thank*you, NancyGalatians 5:22 – 23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law
— Nancy A Comparan 07/08/2007 06:20 PM #
In the past week I have sent 2 letters to the Arizona Daily Star( also known as the Red Star).When I first moved here,I wondered why the nick name but it soon became very clear. The Daily Star has touble reporting in a fair and unbiased way. I am sure my letters to the editor will never make the newspaper. But that is OK, I found their blog site! Just to get it off my chest I am including them to this site.
#1 RE: Uncool letters to the editor
How uncool is our “Educator” that writes such drivel. According to Ms. Barwell, the Tucson Community Church is greedy because they have just opened their 4th church to reach out to all Tucson folks.
TCC (as known to many people) NEVER EVER passes the collection plate and there is no pressure to give what you can’t afford! It is a free will offering. Anything TCC has, is done with hard work by pastors and the congregation. I can only hope that MS.Barwell is no longer in a position to “EDUCATE” children with her hatemongering. It is not her place to cast the first stone! As to MR. Mijac, Jesus did teach love and tolerance, but he did not suffer fools.Does Mr, Mijac know that the teachings of Jesus are in the NEW testament? Obviously he does not know the Bible. Only repentent sinners go to heaven. TCC welcomes all to come amd learn. I am still learning. Thank you, David McAllister.
#2 Rebutal to the Editorial on 07/06/07
Throughout modern history, ignorant editors of newspapers have thought they were smarter than the readers. For your information the Tucson Community Church is “NOT WRONG for saying homosexuals are sinners”. Every human being is a sinner at one time or another. The difference is that Christians know that. If a person has sinned and truly regrets it they can be admitted to Heaven. Others that make the choice not to follow God, Jesus and the Bible will surely go to Hell if they don’t repent their sins. Homosexuals that follow such practices ARE sinners. It is written in the Bible that they are sinners along with so many others that DO NOT follow the Word Of God.
It is too bad that so many have tried to remove God from our lives.Vile four letter words are so prevalent in our society and that is”OK, and yet we can’t talk about what God says is right.
Just who is the expert at the Daily Star that babbles about his interpretation of what Pastor David McAllister says?? Maybe “he” or “she” should try attending a Bible teaching churchto see what the true Word is.
Although you,jhumenik@azstarnet.com, have the power to write about anything, it does not make it true! Sooner or later everyone has to meet their Maker and we can only pray that they are right with God before their time comes.
It is interesting everyone has to tell YOU, their name, address and telephone but no one signs you editorials! Maybe the time has come for all good Christians to let you know that there are other newspapers in Tucson to subscribe to and DO it.
I just began attending the Cool Church this year. I have never heard Pastor David be mean, spiteful or hateful in any of his services. I will say he is a wonderful pastor and I am glad that god took me to him. As for you people that are dogging him so hard I (and I am sure David does to) invite you to the church and see for yourself. I doubt you will because you like to lead around by the voice of ignorance. As for #11 please get your factual apperances correct before you say you saw my “dude” of a pastor out in town since you must not know what a mullet is!!! The bottom line is the bible clearly states no man shall lay with another man. Please explain how this can be taken for anything other than what it says? I think the bible put it pretty straight forward and to the point in that one statement.
— Cris 07/08/2007 07:21 PM #
My family and I have been attending TCC for over 4 years now and the positive influence that the church along with Pastor David has had through his teachings is immeasurable. The articles written in the star and many of the blogs thus far are riddled with interesting omissions and subtle statements of misdirection.
Why is it that the Bible is boxed in as either “literal” or “figurative”? Could it not be both? When Jesus said “I am the bread of life…” in the book of John, people did not reach for a butter knife. That is because this statement was obvious to those listening.
On July 5th Innes quotes David Wilkinson as saying “When you interpret the Bible literally it’s abusive to women, minorities, gays and anyone on the periphery… To condemn someone by misconstruing the Bible as literal — that is an abomination.” Then Ms. Innes states that “Of course, Wilkinson was referring to that oft-quoted passage from Leviticus 18:22: “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” Well, of course! Can anyone give me the figurative explanation for: You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female? I am sure this would be an interesting exercise in mental gymnastics.
In the original article Stephen T. Russell, a professor of family studies and human development at the University of Arizona states, I am sure in his best “academic” voice, “It’s a classic thing to come up with one or two studies that support a point of view rather than quoting the other 20 or 50 studies on the same subject that would come to another conclusion.” Then just one paragraph later he is quoted as saying “Research is complicated,” and ”there’s far too little research that’s been conducted on the life spans of homosexuals to draw any solid conclusions.” So, which is it? Are there 20 to 50 studies that support your claim, or is there not enough evidence?
It’s time to call this article and the debate surrounding it for what it is. The article was a hit piece formulated by Wingspan intended to give relevance to an issue that was settled many years ago. TCC is in the cross-hairs now, but it could have been any one of many churches that teach biblical principles. True love is letting people know about the consequences of their behavior and showing them a legitimate alternative, not hiding the truth to support your own agenda. TCC has no choice but to follow the Bible in this teaching as they do in every other teaching I have seen. Any other choice by TCC and Pastor David would be intellectual suicide.
— Kelly 07/09/2007 11:13 AM #
I, too, have attended the “Cool Church” and find it very uplifting to my spirit. I was raised in a very strict church with very hard to live rules. I have heard Pastor David speak about a lot of those same rules but in a more learnable acceptable manner.
I can say that I have not heard or seen one thing in him and his Church that goes against Bible teachings.
The invitation is extended to everyone, “Come and see for yourself in person.”
If you feel that you are “too good” to attend, then please don’t bad mouth him or the church anymore. People who are unlearned have no business getting into a debate unarmed.
Keep up the good work Pastor David.
Dan
— Dan 07/09/2007 12:22 PM #
In Regards to your vicious attacks on” The Cool Church”.
Under the Freedom of Religion act, I feel that everyone has a right to believe and practice the faith they choose. I personally don’t appreciate you attacking my religion, the church of my choice nor the pastor of my church. My Christian beliefs are the words of the King James Version of the Bible. One of more than one of My Bible quotes “I Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortionist will inherit the kingdom of God. I don’t write the words of the Bible, nor can you change them to appease your life style. Our Bible was written from the words of God to be our guide to live by to create a more peaceful, safer, healthier, happier lifestyle not only for our selves but for the entire world. Where will the world be when society starts picking things out of the bible only because the words make someone feel a little uncomfortable? Homosexuals should be loved and guided in the right direction to ensure greater health, happiness and longevity, not only for themselves but for everyone.
I’m just glad some of us still uphold the word of God. We all should be thankful that we have the privilege of having a leader like Pastor David. It’s your newspaper that brings us all the horrible stories of crime and corruption in the city of Tucson. Why are you are trying to discredit someone who only tries to create a positive environment for some of us who might actually want a positive environment. I say “Keep up the excellent work, Pastor Dave. As far as I’m concerned you are the best thing that could happen to this city!!
— patti 07/09/2007 09:57 PM #
Way to go Patti! You are right quoting Corinthians 6:9, right on point. How can anyone ever think the Bible doesn’t say that homosxuals are sinners? What do you think now, Mr Humenik, as the editor of the Daily Star? Are you ready to eat crow and admit you are wrong?
— Shirley 07/09/2007 11:14 PM #
Shame on you Star / Citizen / TNI!
Your article on Homosexuals and the Cool Church should never have been published since it just provides attention for homosexuals and does not offer them any of the help they so desperately need! Just think, if we all were homosexuals as you appear to favor and condone, the human race would come to an end in the next century! Is this the desire of anyone or God? I think not!
As for your news papers, I found them to be amateurish at best and quit supporting them over 20 years ago. I canceled my subscription and will not place an ad with you! There are much better places to get real news and advertise as well!
Regards, Craig
— CHA 07/10/2007 05:11 AM #
I cancelled the As Daily Star today!! There are other papers out there. Is the Citizen as bad as the Star? Actually, who needs them? There is always the Internet. The message here is,get rid of them. If I want news I will go to KOLD and watch our Dan Marries. I can only hope more Christians will no longer support the Daily Star. Go TCC!
— Shirley 07/11/2007 11:21 AM #
I have been a member of TCC, “The Cool Church:” since 1999. Never in all the years of attending have I ever heard Pastor David or any other member of his staff or anyone that attends this church say they hate homosexual people. I have however, heard them say they hate the “sin” of homosexual behavior. Pastor David is the most knowledgeable person I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. His teachings are based on the Truth of the Bible. He teaches directly from the Bible. He is interesting, funny, and does not ever beg for money! If you are a seeker, I invite you to come see for yourself just how great a teacher Pastor David is. You can find the locations,and times of services on the website: thecoolchurch.com . I for one will stand in the gap for Jesus and defend Him and our Church forever!
— Judy 07/11/2007 09:22 PM #
Notice how the supportive comments picked up after Sunday? Tucson Weekly explains the pastor urged the flock to get right out on the blog since he claims pro-Cool Church letters won’t get published in the print paper. Yawn.
— Doris 07/12/2007 05:49 PM #
The Tucson Weekly? There’s an unbiased source for news. (end sarcasm)
How does a person take a stand for what they believe? Talk to a wall? His point was, if you did have something to say about it, the blogs were a place to do it because most comments are published online, rather than the selected few that the editor picks.
— Jennifer 07/12/2007 06:10 PM #
God has to grant someone to come to Him before they know Him and have a relationship with Him. (John 6:64-65 also John 8:47) Also Satan keeps most people from understanding the Bible also with his schemes and mind numbing spells he puts people in. (John 8:43-45) It is very obvious that if you don’t understand the bible and have a relationship with our Father in Heaven, then living the way God wants us to wouldnt be a priority for us. But on the other hand, knowing God, having a personal relationship with Him and loving Him, you have an understanding of why He wants us to live certain ways and stay away from certain things. It is very obvious when you know God. Homosexuality, just like any other sin is something our Father does not want us to do. When you become one of God’s children, you of course cannot become sinless because we are sinners, but we understand the importance of sinning less and less. Eventually living a life for Jesus and God, you find yourself eliminating the heavy weight of sin off of your shoulders through the powers of God. Why would God want us to perform all these selfish acts of sin? It does not make sense! But God loves everybody and He gives everybody that choice. That choice to go to Him. To drop our weight of sin. To protect us from Satan’s filthy lies. Everybody who reads this that knows God, pray for those who need Him and need to get out from under Satan’s wings. Lets all pray for those who need to relize their sin and relize that us sinning like this, hurts God, and also to relize that God wants us to stop these selfish acts and run to Him. – WT
— WT 07/16/2007 08:36 PM #
Hey, I am a practicing homosexual in Tucson. I have read everything about the whole ordeal, including what BOTH sides have said. It seems to me that The Cool Church can believe what they want. They want me to stop doing my gay thing. That is fine, it doesn’t mean I have to do it. I think God gave us free will, right? Whatever, I know I have free will and so do they. Let them say what they want. America, right?
I think the Star maybe blew this out of proportion after reading that article. It did not seem too nice. But, they have their opinion as well I guess.
— stewart 07/22/2007 10:48 PM #
I have to appreciate Stewart, who chooses to live a gay lifestyle and yet still believes that everyone has a right to their own opinion.
As for the issue at hand, the point has been made over and over again that the bible states homosexuality is a sin. It also states that lots of other things are sins. As a bible believing Christian, I am convicted daily of my need for grace and mercy.
I would encourage Christians everywhere to spend much more time addressing their own sin and walk with the Lord and much less addressing others. When we read in the bible that we should not practice a GLBT lifestyle, that is because God is saying that to us as individuals. How can we expect non-believers to follow what is taught in the bible?
I have often wondered what our world would be like if we as Christians actually let Christ live through us. If people were not hurt so regularly by ‘Christians’ would there be the outpouring of ‘deviency’ (ie all the various types of sin that people engage in) that we see in the world. People act out of sin because: first, they are born as sinful creatures and second, they do not trust that God has their best in mind. They don’t trust Him to care. How does that reflect on the Christians in the world. Could it be that we do not represent Christ’s love to the world around us in such a way that they are changed? Food for thought.
I would think so too but on your opinion page today your Editor chose to publish 5 letters against The Tucson Commuity Church (The Cool Church) and only one in support of the church. Is this an indication of your “unbiased” reporting?
I was interested to find that all of the persons that spoke out against the church, in your story, were members of Wingspan or a long time supporter of Wingspan.
The study quoted by Dr. Stephen T. Russell deals only with the increase of same sex couples reporting their status to the US cemsus and same sex couples and child rearing, it does not deal with Homesexual longivity.
http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/153961
http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Content?oid=oid%3A20834
http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/2005/sep/30/study-gay-straight-couples-ali/
I also found your choice of a practing homosexual, Rev. Nicholson, as the spokesperson for the Tucson Christian community at large, unusual.
I guess that this was just another example of your fair and unbiased reporting.
Rev. David Wilkinson of St. Francis in the Foothills United Methodist Church own Governing body states that “The practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching.”
I have been a member of The Tucson Community Church for almost thirteen years and I have never heard Pastor David tell us to go out and smite the Homosexual. If you had gone to the web page and read it, you would have seen in the very first paragraph. “Welcome to our “Homosexual sex facts” page. Please understand that at TCC, we love people and want to help them to be everything that God intended for them to be when He created them. This being the case, we have no desire with the following information to try and attack or hurt someone who is involved in homosexual sex – quite the contrary – our intention is first to try and help to set them free from the sin of homosexuality and the subsequent tragic consequences associated with homosexual sex – this is an act of love”
Come out to one of the services and see for your self what Pastor David teaches and what we believe.
You ask for my comments so I gave them to you.
PS this link will let you know what the other religions think about Homosexuality.
Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominational_positions_on_homosexuality
Charles Roth
— Charles Roth 07/05/2007 06:17 PM #
You are one step away from protesting with “God Hates Fags” signs. What a wonderful image your children are being introduced to. You must be so proud.
— TB 07/05/2007 07:52 PM #
“I would think so too but on your opinion page today your Editor chose to publish 5 letters against The Tucson Commuity Church (The Cool Church) and only one in support of the church. Is this an indication of your “unbiased” reporting?”
Maybe that’s because 85% of the responders were outraged while a minority of readers supported the TCC.
— bah 07/05/2007 08:37 PM #
It cannot be helped that the Creators’ message was colored by the prejudices and opinions of the time. Keeping this in mind, it underscores the dangers of a literal translation of scripture. As another reader pointed out in another post, interpreted literally…the bible is discriminatory to women, minorities etc. That is a attitude of the times which has colored the interpretation of the Creators’ message.
One thing though I believe is clear…whatever judges, oppresses, or otherwise seeks to proclaim superiority at the expense of another, does not follow the very basic fundamentals of the Creators’ Law.
— JK 07/05/2007 08:51 PM #
Did you read the Web Page? Did you check out the studies?
Can you present me with any facts to show that the over 95 studies are all bad science?
Or is it just empty rhetoric because you don’t agree with the studies so they must be wrong?
— Charles Roth 07/05/2007 08:57 PM #
— Charles Roth 07/05/2007 09:07 PM #
— Rev. Todd Wallace 07/05/2007 09:24 PM #
Dear Dr. Laura:
>
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding
God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries
to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need
some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other
specific laws
and how to follow them:
>
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned
in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
>
Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both
male and
female, provided they are purchased from neighboring
nations. A friend
of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not
Canadians. Can you
clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
>
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.
Exodus 35:2
clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally
obligated to kill
him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality.
I don’ t agree.
Can you settle this?
>
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God
if I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading
glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
>
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including
the hair
around their temples, even though this is expressly
forbidden by Lev.
19:27. How should they die?
>
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig
makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
>
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two
different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing
garments made of
two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He
also tends to
curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go
to all the
trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? – Lev.24:10-16.
Couldn ’ t we just burn them to death at a private family
affair like we
do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
>
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am
confident you
can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God ’ s word
is eternal
and unchanging.
>
Your devoted fan,
Jim
— Bruce Hilpert 07/05/2007 10:15 PM #
If God is the divine author of the Bible, then the words written in the Bible are true, and they are not ours to interpret at our own discretion. If God is not the author of the Scriptures, then we are free to interpret in whatever subjective way we see fit. In light of that, there are rules of interpretation (hermeneutics)which still allow for a normative literal interpretation of Scripture. For example, prophesy, for the most part, tends not to be literal, but rather uses pictorial language to paint general ideas and principles. Sin, however, is almost always presented directly, specifically, and, dare we say, literally.
If God is the author and final authority, and what the bible says is true (in absolute terms, not as a post-modern construct of our own desire) then based upon scripture references in Gen. 19, Lev. 18:22, 1 Cor. 6:9-11, Gal 5:19-21, Eph. 5:3-5, 1 Tim. 1:9-10, and Jude 7, same sex sexual activity is sin. If the bible is only the words of man, it is open to preferential subjective interpretation, and we are all just players in pluralistic polytheism.
Which leads to the second argument. Pluralism is based upon all different ideas having equal validity. If that is the case, then those who are opposed to homosexuality on moral or religious grounds have just as equal footing at the table as any other viewpoint. If the voices in opposition of homosexuality are to be silenced, those in favor of homosexuality are guilty of exclusivity just as much as those they are trying to silence. If you claim that any who are in biblical opposition to homosexuality are intolerant and therefore are wrong, you are also practicing intolerance against their viewpoint. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t point the finger of intolerance at others without becoming guilty of intolerance yourself. True tolerance allows dissenting points of view to be heard, even if those points of view are neither popular or politically correct.
Finally, in addressing an issue in the blog itself,
the writers of scripture (especially during the first century)were fully aware of what same sex relationships were, as they were writing in the midst of a Greek and Roman culture that generally accepted and embraced homosexuality as a cultural norm. So the first century writings of the church were still in opposition to same gender sexual relationships whether the words of God or the writings of men.
— Al Addleman 07/05/2007 10:25 PM #
Give this a rest and address something more important like civil liberties for gays and lesbians.
— jjm 07/06/2007 01:10 AM #
— Chris s. 07/06/2007 04:58 AM #
But outside of this historical context what is most disturbing is jjm’s post. By decrying “Hate speech under the guise of religion” he provides an important clue about the future of Hate Speech Codes, so beloved by the left. Where introduced, these statutes will eventually be used to vigorously suppress religious speech that the favored minorites find unwelcome. Religious Jews, evangelicals, Catholic clergy, anyone who preaches favorably about the Levitical prohibitions will find themselves on the receiving end of the one hate speech favored by the left—the bankrupting lawsuit.
Take it from this Jew—our people have had long experiece with this, beginning around 150 B.C.E. when the Syrio-Greeks made their first attempts to outlaw us because our practices offended them.
— Richard 07/06/2007 05:11 AM #
“We all must remember that sripture was directed by the Creator and given to man but interpreted through the lenses of man’s experience.”
That is just your opinion. I believe that your scriptures were written by man.
— Pete Gonzalez 07/06/2007 06:06 AM #
Not everyone shares the exact view of many issues in Scripture. The theology of the Left Behind books isn’t as universally accepted as many people think, there are 2 major views on eschatology (amillennialism being the most widely held, by the way, in opposition to LaHaye and Jenkins).
I think that God will survive the argument over homosexuality. I think that God will survive Republican/Democrat/Conservative/Liberal bickering. I think that God will survive knowing that many people hold to a wide spectrum of Biblical interpretation.
According to Ezekiel, the sin of Sodom was injustice and inhospitality. How much are so-called Christian churches willing to work for the rights of gays and lesbians, and how much welcome do they extend.
Sodomy isn’t just about deviant sex. It’s about violence against the stranger.
I wish that the same churches that crow about the shortened lifespans of gays and lesbians would put as much energy into making sure their own members don’t drop dead from coronary diseases. Or is a heterosexual dead from clogged arteries more acceptable to God than a healthy homosexual?
Don’t discount the existence of gay and lesbian Christians, neither. Not all of them are godless liberals.
— Rev. Tom 07/06/2007 06:56 AM #
Pardon me if I don’t feel compelled to be under their religious authority. I have my own church, a Christ-centered, Grace-grounded community of faith that seeks to bring justice and compassion into a harsh world.
What makes them different than any of the other cookie-cutter churches? Not much.
— Joshua 07/06/2007 07:19 AM #
— DB 07/06/2007 07:37 AM #
There is nothing original there, it is just a big “cut and paste” from christian hate groups like the FRC.
I see exactly the same text on the sites of dozens of other fundamentalist christian churches.
Look at this one (sodomites can be saved) :))
http://www.sonsofthundr.com/sodomitescanbesaved.html
And when you think about it there is very little practical difference between what the “cool” church preaches and what Tucson’s Catholic Bishop preaches.
It isn’t simply a failure to “love” – it is a blatant disregard of the commandments these people claim to hold in high regard – in particular the sin of bearing false witness against your neighbor.
Im always amazed that when it comes to gay people these christians are happy to spread any derogatory lie they come across.
— Patrick ONeill 07/06/2007 08:04 AM #
But, what else to expect from churches that still teach that women should be silent in church, and still have people who supported segregation. Funny how the churches that oppose gay rights also opposed women’s rights, civil rights, etc.
If they had their way, women would still be silent, blacks would still have separate drinking fountains, and gays wouldn’t even be allowed in the bus.
I guess their rejection of evolution includes anything new in their brains, too.
I’m a gay Christian. I’m not forced to worship in their religious compounds.
— Joshua 07/06/2007 08:46 AM #
“It’s clear from the mail the Star is receiving about the article that feelings on both sides of the debate are strong.
Any thoughts?”
Yeah. Stephanie Innes is a manipulative, using troll. After how many months of “blogging” she finally found her little hot button. There’s nothing new here—it’s been going for centuries.
— Den Hauser 07/06/2007 10:56 AM #
— Rob 07/06/2007 10:56 AM #
Let’s also quote scripture: “In the beginning made them He male and female.”
But then again I know what the retort will be: “That’s according to your interpretation.”
It’s a no brainer. Have you considered that only a male and a female can produce a child?
And this is for Joshau: “I am a gay Christian.” That is an oxymoron.
And say what you want about the “cool church” though I have never visited I do commend them for standing up in our age of political correctness.
Jess
— Jess 07/06/2007 11:40 AM #
— Den Hauser 07/06/2007 02:02 PM #
— Dan 07/06/2007 04:25 PM #
Still a gay Christian, by the way.
You have no say in that.
— Joshua 07/06/2007 05:09 PM #
— Rob 07/06/2007 09:39 PM #
“Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
It does not leave much to interpretation; in fact it seems quite clear. Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God as well as thieves, covetous, drunkards, revielers, or extortioners. Let’s get off the question of homosexuals for a second and go to the next sin listed. No thieves will enter the kingdom of God. The question that should come to mind is “have I ever stolen anything?” If the answer is yes, then what does that make you? A thief! Quantity does not qualify a sin. I don’t think that any one of us can say that we have never stolen anything. Next is covetous. Have you ever coveted anything? I can see this sin just when I dish out ice cream to a bunch of kids. Homosexuality is an easy one to point our finger at since it is a sin that many of us do not struggle with. Unfortunately, for myself, I can not say that about many of the other sins in that list. Remember what James 2:10 says:
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
That makes my sinful past as abhorrent to God as any homosexual’s. Romans 3:10 is clear that we are all guilty. However, there is hope. Let’s not stop at 1 Corinthians 6:10, let’s continue to verse 11:
“And such were some of you. But you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”
The key is that there is forgiveness for those sins, any of them. There is a way out. 1 John 1:9 states:
“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
However, for those that look at their sin and claim that God is going to accept me just as I am, an unrepentant, unchanging sinner there is 1 John2:4:
“He who says, I have known Him, and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
— Doug G 07/06/2007 10:21 PM #
Jesus gave us the ultimate example of love toward all sinners in Mark 2:14-17. When Jesus was questioned about associating with sinners, He clearly stated (Mark 2:17) “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” As it relates in with this discussion, I believe the key of Mark 2:17 is repentance.
As an example, I will use myself (a bible-based Christian) as a witness to the repentance process. When I sin, (whether it is an intentional sin or when I am weak and choose not to pray through my areas of struggle) I am ultimately heartbroken by my sin-filled actions and I wholehearted repent (defined as change of mind, heart, and conduct). The Lord, in His awesome saving love forgives me of this sin and I ask the Lord to give me strength the next time I am tempted in that particular area. However, when someone chooses to live within a homosexual lifestyle, this choice is a rejection of the repentance process altogether, as there is no intention of a directional change in mind, heart, or conduct.
As a Christian, I try to follow the “love the sinner, hate the sin” practice. And, although I understand that a few may view my comments as “intolerant” or “hate speech”, nothing can be further from the truth.
When a rescue worker reaches a hand out across dangerous waters to save someone who is in peril, it is never considered a hateful act. Nor should a witness (to set someone free from the chokehold of sin) be considered hateful act as the loss of eternity is more important than the loss of one’s earthly existence.
— Sheryl 07/06/2007 11:59 PM #
This is day 4 on this topic….but who’s counting? (Yawn!)
Why doesn’t everyone just attend The Cool Church tomorrow and engage in this debate in person?
Let the AZ Daily Star get on with reporting on something else.
— Annie H 07/07/2007 09:15 AM #
Kim, proud member of TCC
— Kim 07/07/2007 12:49 PM #
I just wanted to shed some light from the other side. He is a GREAT man and deserves more respect then you’re giving him!!
Alexia and Stacy!!
— Alexia and Stacy 07/07/2007 03:07 PM #
— Rob 07/07/2007 04:52 PM #
Some comments have accused Pastor David of being a money grubber out to get in your wallet. Once again, I’ve heard him discuss tithing twice in seven years. Both times he started off by saying he felt uncomfortable talking about the subject, but it was in the Bible and he wanted to cover everything. As a guest of TCC, you’ll be told not to contribute anything, just relax and listen to the message of the day. They don’t even pass a plate, there’s a box in the back you can put money in if you want to help out with costs. This week there’s a fundraiser for the Crisis Pregnancy Center and everyone is gathering up their change and filling up baby bottles with the money.
An amazing thing happened this week for me. I have a Cool Church sticker on my car and a lot of people came up to me telling me they thought it was great publicity and they admire a church that stands up for what they believe instead of trying to be politically correct. One person did approach me and said they thought my church was full of hate. I invited them to come on Sunday and find out for themselves instead of trusting a biased newspaper article. They said they didn’t want to do that. Didn’t surprise me at all.
Most of what you could learn at TCC has to do with how to live your life and deal with all the stuff that happens in our world every day. Homosexuality is actually a very, very, very small part of that.
— William 07/07/2007 05:37 PM #
— Lory 07/07/2007 08:28 PM #
Where can I find a newspaper that reports with integrity rather than reports in such a way to get their readers to think like they do?
Don’t you believe it Tucson, many, many more people support the position of The Cool Church than the Arizona Daily Star is letting on.
Lory I too, notice, the tone of the letters for and against. Makes a person wonder where the hate really is.
As for my attitude toward people who practice homosexuality….I love you, God loves you…change is possible, through Jesus Christ.
p.s. to those who are commenting…...more paragraphs, please, makes it easier to read.
— Jennifer 07/08/2007 09:42 AM #
— alan kay 07/08/2007 02:05 PM #
Andrea
— Andrea 07/08/2007 02:58 PM #
One thing I have not seen is the tolerance from the homosexual side of the blog.
The thing that the homosexuals always scream about is tolerance. Now the gays are yelling about TCC’s so called intolerance and telling TCC to stop teachin in something that we christians believe in. That seems very intolerant and hypocritical.
Now the gay side would say that we are not being tolerant, so why should they have to. Well the reason is that we do not demand tolerance. We have never demanded tolerance, gays have and therefore should do the same for others. We do demand our right to free speech, just as homosexuals do, and have. TCC is not saying that homosexuality should be outlawed, TCC is trying to get people out of a dangerous lifestyle. Which is the loving thing to do.
Christians should take a stand on the issues because of God and what is right and wrong. It would be easy to sugar coat some issues like homosexual issues, sex before marriage, murder, and other hot topic issues to try and make everybody feel ok. Unfortunately that would not be doing what God says.
So again I would like to say good job to all the pro TCC blogers. Good job on doing the right thing even though it is the hard thing and continue to pray that God works this for good. Continue to pray for TCC and christins as a whole.
— Jake 07/08/2007 05:12 PM #
Rom. 1:26-28*****that’s what it is. God [Our parent, Our Father} makes the rules not man, Satan tried to…… and look were he’s at! We are all sinners and to be a child of God we accept Jesus and follow him and try and obey [follow the rules] . Some of us stumble quite frequently But the good news is …. Jesus is their to save us! Pastor David is really understandable and making the bible come alive! I thoroughly enjoy my Sunday church and finding out about God. The information of why homosexuality is out there is what I do as a parent for my kids. If they are doing something wrong that God has said is a sin “I” show them why they shouldn’t do it….….what happens if they do it…..….where it leads to……...how it affects people around them……….and find the help they need to stop it…and monitor them until they are able to stand on there own….that’s what a good parent does, much like Pastor David and Pastor Andy and Pastor Juan. As for “love thy neighbor” we do ! there is no condemnation shouting or screaming just “it is sin” come to Jesus. The organization “Southern Poverty Law Center” on the web has the founder Morris Dees as being not to honest when I tried to find out more about the article you wrote. Thanks for letting me be heard, and please come to church!Thank*you, NancyGalatians 5:22 – 23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law
— Nancy A Comparan 07/08/2007 06:20 PM #
#1 RE: Uncool letters to the editor
How uncool is our “Educator” that writes such drivel. According to Ms. Barwell, the Tucson Community Church is greedy because they have just opened their 4th church to reach out to all Tucson folks.
TCC (as known to many people) NEVER EVER passes the collection plate and there is no pressure to give what you can’t afford! It is a free will offering. Anything TCC has, is done with hard work by pastors and the congregation. I can only hope that MS.Barwell is no longer in a position to “EDUCATE” children with her hatemongering. It is not her place to cast the first stone! As to MR. Mijac, Jesus did teach love and tolerance, but he did not suffer fools.Does Mr, Mijac know that the teachings of Jesus are in the NEW testament? Obviously he does not know the Bible. Only repentent sinners go to heaven. TCC welcomes all to come amd learn. I am still learning. Thank you, David McAllister.
#2 Rebutal to the Editorial on 07/06/07
Throughout modern history, ignorant editors of newspapers have thought they were smarter than the readers. For your information the Tucson Community Church is “NOT WRONG for saying homosexuals are sinners”. Every human being is a sinner at one time or another. The difference is that Christians know that. If a person has sinned and truly regrets it they can be admitted to Heaven. Others that make the choice not to follow God, Jesus and the Bible will surely go to Hell if they don’t repent their sins. Homosexuals that follow such practices ARE sinners. It is written in the Bible that they are sinners along with so many others that DO NOT follow the Word Of God.
It is too bad that so many have tried to remove God from our lives.Vile four letter words are so prevalent in our society and that is”OK, and yet we can’t talk about what God says is right.
Just who is the expert at the Daily Star that babbles about his interpretation of what Pastor David McAllister says?? Maybe “he” or “she” should try attending a Bible teaching churchto see what the true Word is.
Although you,jhumenik@azstarnet.com, have the power to write about anything, it does not make it true! Sooner or later everyone has to meet their Maker and we can only pray that they are right with God before their time comes.
It is interesting everyone has to tell YOU, their name, address and telephone but no one signs you editorials! Maybe the time has come for all good Christians to let you know that there are other newspapers in Tucson to subscribe to and DO it.
Shirley
Retired
— ShirleyYoung 07/08/2007 06:52 PM #
— Cris 07/08/2007 07:21 PM #
Why is it that the Bible is boxed in as either “literal” or “figurative”? Could it not be both? When Jesus said “I am the bread of life…” in the book of John, people did not reach for a butter knife. That is because this statement was obvious to those listening.
On July 5th Innes quotes David Wilkinson as saying “When you interpret the Bible literally it’s abusive to women, minorities, gays and anyone on the periphery… To condemn someone by misconstruing the Bible as literal — that is an abomination.” Then Ms. Innes states that “Of course, Wilkinson was referring to that oft-quoted passage from Leviticus 18:22: “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” Well, of course! Can anyone give me the figurative explanation for: You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female? I am sure this would be an interesting exercise in mental gymnastics.
In the original article Stephen T. Russell, a professor of family studies and human development at the University of Arizona states, I am sure in his best “academic” voice, “It’s a classic thing to come up with one or two studies that support a point of view rather than quoting the other 20 or 50 studies on the same subject that would come to another conclusion.” Then just one paragraph later he is quoted as saying “Research is complicated,” and ”there’s far too little research that’s been conducted on the life spans of homosexuals to draw any solid conclusions.” So, which is it? Are there 20 to 50 studies that support your claim, or is there not enough evidence?
It’s time to call this article and the debate surrounding it for what it is. The article was a hit piece formulated by Wingspan intended to give relevance to an issue that was settled many years ago. TCC is in the cross-hairs now, but it could have been any one of many churches that teach biblical principles. True love is letting people know about the consequences of their behavior and showing them a legitimate alternative, not hiding the truth to support your own agenda. TCC has no choice but to follow the Bible in this teaching as they do in every other teaching I have seen. Any other choice by TCC and Pastor David would be intellectual suicide.
— Kelly 07/09/2007 11:13 AM #
I can say that I have not heard or seen one thing in him and his Church that goes against Bible teachings.
The invitation is extended to everyone, “Come and see for yourself in person.”
If you feel that you are “too good” to attend, then please don’t bad mouth him or the church anymore. People who are unlearned have no business getting into a debate unarmed.
Keep up the good work Pastor David.
Dan
— Dan 07/09/2007 12:22 PM #
Under the Freedom of Religion act, I feel that everyone has a right to believe and practice the faith they choose. I personally don’t appreciate you attacking my religion, the church of my choice nor the pastor of my church. My Christian beliefs are the words of the King James Version of the Bible. One of more than one of My Bible quotes “I Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortionist will inherit the kingdom of God. I don’t write the words of the Bible, nor can you change them to appease your life style. Our Bible was written from the words of God to be our guide to live by to create a more peaceful, safer, healthier, happier lifestyle not only for our selves but for the entire world. Where will the world be when society starts picking things out of the bible only because the words make someone feel a little uncomfortable? Homosexuals should be loved and guided in the right direction to ensure greater health, happiness and longevity, not only for themselves but for everyone.
I’m just glad some of us still uphold the word of God. We all should be thankful that we have the privilege of having a leader like Pastor David. It’s your newspaper that brings us all the horrible stories of crime and corruption in the city of Tucson. Why are you are trying to discredit someone who only tries to create a positive environment for some of us who might actually want a positive environment. I say “Keep up the excellent work, Pastor Dave. As far as I’m concerned you are the best thing that could happen to this city!!
— patti 07/09/2007 09:57 PM #
— Shirley 07/09/2007 11:14 PM #
Your article on Homosexuals and the Cool Church should never have been published since it just provides attention for homosexuals and does not offer them any of the help they so desperately need! Just think, if we all were homosexuals as you appear to favor and condone, the human race would come to an end in the next century! Is this the desire of anyone or God? I think not!
As for your news papers, I found them to be amateurish at best and quit supporting them over 20 years ago. I canceled my subscription and will not place an ad with you! There are much better places to get real news and advertise as well!
Regards, Craig
— CHA 07/10/2007 05:11 AM #
— Shirley 07/11/2007 11:21 AM #
— Judy 07/11/2007 09:22 PM #
— Doris 07/12/2007 05:49 PM #
How does a person take a stand for what they believe? Talk to a wall? His point was, if you did have something to say about it, the blogs were a place to do it because most comments are published online, rather than the selected few that the editor picks.
— Jennifer 07/12/2007 06:10 PM #
— WT 07/16/2007 08:36 PM #
I think the Star maybe blew this out of proportion after reading that article. It did not seem too nice. But, they have their opinion as well I guess.
— stewart 07/22/2007 10:48 PM #
I have to appreciate Stewart, who chooses to live a gay lifestyle and yet still believes that everyone has a right to their own opinion.
As for the issue at hand, the point has been made over and over again that the bible states homosexuality is a sin. It also states that lots of other things are sins. As a bible believing Christian, I am convicted daily of my need for grace and mercy.
I would encourage Christians everywhere to spend much more time addressing their own sin and walk with the Lord and much less addressing others. When we read in the bible that we should not practice a GLBT lifestyle, that is because God is saying that to us as individuals. How can we expect non-believers to follow what is taught in the bible?
I have often wondered what our world would be like if we as Christians actually let Christ live through us. If people were not hurt so regularly by ‘Christians’ would there be the outpouring of ‘deviency’ (ie all the various types of sin that people engage in) that we see in the world. People act out of sin because: first, they are born as sinful creatures and second, they do not trust that God has their best in mind. They don’t trust Him to care. How does that reflect on the Christians in the world. Could it be that we do not represent Christ’s love to the world around us in such a way that they are changed? Food for thought.
— Danielle Schneider 02/18/2009 12:24 PM #