Mr. Cesare, I'm sure that just like everythind else it seems in this world, the information you seek is available. FOR A FEE!

Oh what a thought! I doubt it's that. I called my sisters and they all received complete test results for their children in other districts. So what happened to SMS results? It is a mystery I intend to solve.

The State has mutilated the AIMS test to the point that it has absolutely no value or meaning other than to pitifully fulfill the Federal No Child Left Behind regulations. In a 1 year period, the test went from being a significant hurdle to absolutely no hurdle at all. The only students that the AIMS test holds back are the ones that were not going to graduate anyway due to other reasons. The State literally customed designed this newer version of the AIMS to provide a desired passing rate, and also made provisions for a battery of loopholes in the event a student didnt get the needed pasing score. I have a MAster of Arts degree in Secondary Education and I am State certified to teach Mathematics and Physics. I have a Bachelors degree in Mechanical Engineering and have worked as an Engineer for many years. I have a significant technical background, and I can tell you this much: In my opinion, the AIMS test is something no student in Arizona should ever have to worry about. We as State citizens and parents, have gutted this test to a point of uselessness, and as a result, have again eliminated another tool that could have been used to actually get our students, our children, to get off their butts and take learning to heart. You dont have to spend to many days in a classroom to see how little students actually want to learn and succeed. They want the good grades, but they dont want to do the hard work to get them, ergo an epidemic in cheating. The truth hurts, dosnt it, which is why we dont like to face the truth.

It was a simple miscommunication between staff. The students will be bringing home the results over the next few days.

As to the rest of your message, I am having trouble finding a proper way to respond. My son has attended primarily private schools. When Tucson Christian closed it's doors we went to public schools. Private schools gave a completely different test. Students were not only compared to National Scores of all schools. The parents were given comparisons of their child to the much higher ACSI scores.

My son has never complained about the AIM test other then saying it is very easy compared to the tests he had to take while in private school. His scores are high but his scores have always been extremely high since his first test in kindergarten. Yes, the private school he attended tested kindergartners. This was not a problem because most if not all of his classmates could read and write in cursive very well, thanks to a good solid ABEKA program.

I really can't say if the AIM has been too "simplified" as parents are not allowed to see the test. Put the sample test that we are allowed to see did seem challenging and grade appropriate.

I would agree no student should worry about test taking. Confidence is shot with stress and worry and a student will, of course, score lower under those conditions.

As I stated earlier the AIM or any test for that matter is a valuable tool for parents. I am sorry you don't see the value of it. I can take the results and go over each area with my child and see where he needs to focus more study time.

This is the statement you made "You don't have to spend to many days in a classroom to see how little students actually want to learn and succeed. They want the good grades, but they don't want to do the hard work to get them, ergo an epidemic in cheating. The truth hurts, doesn't it, which is why we don't like to face the truth."

Wow! I volunteer at the middle school level last year and let me tell you with certainty, I never saw any student, in any classroom I was in, have the attitude you describe. In fact, I can remember a big project the kids were working on where 2 girls went to the library and emailed me several times from the library because they were stuck and needed help with properly formatting their bibliographies. They knew I had the MLA format book. Other students would call at 8:00 or 9:00 PM for the same reason. The students I have seen work very diligently and put far to much stress on themselves to achieve high grades.

I am sorry you have had that experience with students. But in no way will I accept that as the "norm." I have seen with my own eyes the contrary. If you have come to the point in your teaching career that you truly believe all students are as you described then perhaps it is time for you to take a break from teaching. Surly, you can see with that attitude you cannot be an effective teacher.

Most students want to learn but I will grant you there are a few who go out of their way to annoy teachers. It is a pet peeve of mine that they are continually sent back into the classroom thus robbing my son of his teachers full attention. These disruptive students are not the norm and finding a better way to deal with them would make a teacher and students less stressed.

I pray you take a break and come back refreshed and able to see that our students are merely vessels waiting to be filled with the knowledge you hold.

Well, seems like I made a mistake. You are not a teacher but certified as one. I apologize for the misunderstanding there. I was answering your post first before answering an email from a teacher I wanted to encourage to take a break from teaching. It seems I blended the two in mind. :-)

I was a teacher, and as a first year teacher at the high school level, I experienced administrators that could do nothing to actually help beginning teachers; instead, they seemed to go out of their way to hurt the teacher. I truly enjoyed teaching my students, but with absolutely no administrative support, the job was very very difficult. At another very popular east side TUSD high school, I caught the star varsity baseball pitcher stealing a test out of my desk....a test not administered yet. This is a suspension offence, but since state finals were very near, the prinicpal decided to have the student spend a few days in in-house suspension and those days did not conflict with the students practice schedule. I could go on and on with some really nasty things that go on in our schools and are perpetrated and condoned by administrators and parents...and the person who takes the heat is always the teacher. I went into education for the right reason: to help students achieve their goals of learning and to help them succeed in life as well as the classroom. That is not the problem....the problem is that a teacher must have flexible ethics to be a good teacher, and that I did not have. From what you have written, you have only been on one side of the fence, the nice side, so I think it would be extremely innapropriate for you to judge me. My intersts in becomming a teacher stemmed from 5 years of being a volunteer elementary school art teacher at a nice private school and a nice public school. Wonderful students, great atmosphere...what a wonderful experience. It does look a lot different from the outside. But being a contracted teacher at the high school level was a tad bit different. I saw too many really good and dedicated teachers destroyed because of politics, and I saw too many lousy teachers and administrators slide through as though greased with butter. You are right, I did need a break, and I am on one. And when I do go back to teaching, it most likely will not be in Arizona.....not because of the students, but because of the parents, the school boards we have here, and our State Dept. of Education. By the way, have you noticed where this state stands in education with the rest of the country?? I dont usually toot my horn, but I feel I need to because you seemed to attack me and my character when I had simply made a comment about AIMS that was not meant to insult or attack any individual. I am a great teacher, and I have received too many accolades from fellow teachers and students to even begin to mention here. The really funny thing here is that I made a negative comment about AIMS and right off the bat you came after me with a sharpened pitchfork. Perhaps you should re-read what you wrote. I think its people like you that help make teaching so difficult. Have a great day.

I have re-read what I wrote and what you wrote. Respectfully sir, I began with telling you about my child's school history and experience with standardized tests. I then went on to tell you about what my son said about the AIM test. Then I explained that I did not know if the AIM had been simplified because I have not seen the actual test.

I then agreed with you that students should not stress over tests and I quoted you. I then told you about my experiences as a volunteer in the school. I told you about students who worked far harder then anyone expected.

The only thing said about you was that perhaps you needed a break which you just agreed with.

You were not judged nor insulted or attacked. You, however, implied that our students all cheat and... "want the good grades, but they don't want to do the hard work to get them, ergo an epidemic in cheating. The truth hurts, doesn't it, which is why we don't like to face the truth...." Those are your exact words. You sir were the only person judging and throwing insults.

As for people like me making teaching difficult all I can say is WOW! I am a parent who bends over backwards to provide money, time and an over abundance of complements to offer encouragement to all of my son's teachers. I make sure to notice when they go above and beyond. I go out of my way to make sure those who have receive the proper public notice for their accomplishments. I firmly believe that teachers are our nations greatest asset and make sure they know that is how I feel.

If you are trying to entice me into an exchange of insults it will not happen. I disagreed, politely, with your assessment of the AIM test and cheating students.

Perhaps, you misunderstand or read into what people are saying which leads to your obvious contempt for anyone who disagrees with you.

"Surly, you can see with that attitude you cannot be an effective teacher.". Yes, I did take that as an insult. I dont presume to tell people what they should or should not do. I do know one thing however: No one should be judged until you walk in their shoes. I like the way you write, its very condescending, and you sound like a perfectly wonderful person who is a natural in the classroom. It might be your calling to leave the profession which you have been in for so many years, go back to school and get a Masters Degree in Education, and teach under contract. Just a thought....and maybe at one of Tucson's more challenging schools like I did. By the way, I didnt presume that all students cheat. I stated that there is an epidemic in cheating. If you cannot agree to that with all the publicity and controversy that has been around then I would love to live your life for a while...because that must be a wonderful world. I will agree with you that there are many truly marvelous students out there and that are a joy to teach. I have even had great success and fun teaching the students who are not so easy to get along with. It's not the students who are driving teachers away in droves, especially new teachers, who have an academic life expectancy thats an embarrassment to our society. Here is the bottom line with me: I am pro teacher, pro student accountability, and pro family accountability. Unfortunately, its the teacher that is made to account for it all. Ask a majoriity of teachers who leave their jobs and they will all pretty much say the same thing: It's not the students, it's the politics. As a teaching volunteer I never saw that. It wasnt until I was made the actual teacher in charge did I understand just how wrong teachers are treated and just how little they are valued; not by parents such as yourself, but by the very administrators and districts that hire them. Teachers who are teaching cannot speak out, because when they do their contracts are not renewed, or if they have been in the district a long time, then they are simply transfered to another school. I bend over backwards to help students and spent hundreds of hours volunteering over numerous years. I even spent 2 months devoting my evenings and nights painting a 14 ft by 7 ft mural for a 2nd grade class, a beautiful work of art that made the teacher cry when I unveiled it to her. There is a lot of good going on in our schools, but there is a lot of bad as well, and the bad is detroying the careers of many exceptional teachers. If our society does value its teachers and if they truly are our greatest asset, then why do we treat them so poorly; as disposable entities. Im not in the classroom right now, so I will speak out. I wonder how many first year teachers this year are going to be beaten down and out, their ideals of being an instrument to change lives for the better dashed. I dont care if you agree with me or not; it does not really matter. But like I said, maybe you should consider becomming a teacher...Sorry, I dont mean to tell you what you should do; its just a thought.

I had no intention for this to escalate to this point. I simply saw some posts going on about the AIMS and decided to simply add a perspective about the test; a perspective from someone who had a very large stake in its administration and results, the perspective of a math teacher. I witnessed first hand the errosion of the test due to pressures from parents and administrators wanting to keep graduating students even when those students came no where near meeting that state academic standards that a high school degree is supposed to represent. I am not trying to bash you nor show contempt for anyone who thinks differently than me. So perhaps it would be best if we just let this rest.

I just want to get this straight. I did in fact say, "Surly, you can see with that attitude you cannot be an effective teacher." However, it was followed in the next comment with, "Well, seems like I made a mistake. You are not a teacher but certified as one. I apologize for the misunderstanding there. I was answering your post first before answering an email from a teacher I wanted to encourage to take a break from teaching. It seems I blended the two in mind."

Surly, you can understand I would not be telling a person who was not a teacher to take a break from teaching. It was meant for a teacher who belongs to our group PFA. She lives in Arkansas and after a political battle last year with her district she asked for my for my advice on taking a break from teaching.

You seem to also believe that because I happen to like getting AIM results and support testing, that I somehow support every decision made in every school. I am an active member of Parents Forcing Accountability. We are a group who support teachers and take on their battles with districts so they can keep their focus in the classroom. We take on the conflicts between parents and school administrators as well. Rarely, does a district even know why or who initiated the action. Most of the time we are labeled as trouble makers for challenging policy and are never taken seriously until we end up in court or rally support from the community. This is a label I am willing to accept because by taking it I lessen the likelihood of losing a good teacher for my son over political nonsense.

So you see, you and I are not unalike in the way we think with the exception of disagreeing on testing. You took something as an insult that was never meant to be one which set the tone of your messages. I apologized immediately and stated it was not even a comment meant for you. Had I the option of editing the comment I would have immediately.

I too am all for standardized testing such as the SAT and the ACT. Those tests are beyond the reach of parents, administrators, and school boards to tweak to achieve desired results. It is only the AIMS that I feel is a test that has no value because "we" as a state poulace have tweaked it to the point of being a useles indicator of student achievement. It really is nothing more than a formality to graduate, and that I do have problems with. I knew a long time ago that our society here would not stand for AIMS to stand in the way of graduating students, regardless of the students' abilities. I want to know exactly how many students in Arizona do not graduate based solely on their innability to pass AIMS and nothing more. I know for a fact that there are numerous students graduating that are not even able to carry out the most simple algebraic calculation, or write a very simple sentence. The fact is that there are numerous students graduating that fall very very short of meeting the state standards. I have a problem with that becasue we are sending many of our kids out into the world improperly equipped with tools we had established as necessary for them to succeed and be productive vessels in our society. Perhaps we are alike in many ways, and perhaps we really only differ in our take on AIMS. If that is the case, then I think we will be ok.

Great, I did not want to leave things with you upset with me. I am glad to have worked that out. I do not like to leave things unsettled, especially, when it is a simple misunderstanding.

There was an intersting article in today's paper about the AIMS. There are only a few other states that allow class grades for augmenting the AIMS score. I do applaud Superintendant Horne for being an opponet to that practice. But I just wanted to offer this little bit of perspective because I dont think anyone has really thought about it...I know they certainly havnt talked about it: If the state allows class grades (performance) to augment the student's AIMS score, then what sort of added pressure do you think a teacher will face from parents and administrators when it comes time to issue class grades? Also, how much more presure do you think math teachers will face? A teacher's grade can make the difference between the student graduating or not. I can tell you from experience that I have had administrators tell me to my face that my job was on the line if the grades I issued were not more in line with their expectations, and student performance did not enter into that equation. I had students pulled out of my class by administrators just two days before grades were due so that I wouldnt be able to award the grade the student was due. That student would then go to another teacher who would issue a semester grade based on the work that had been done for those two days, and it was always a passing grade. This practice is a little known loophole to circumvent a state law that says only the student's teacher may asign a grade and that the grade cannot be changed except by the school board. So, if the student is no longer your student, then you cannot issue a grade, even if the student is removed from your clas the day before grades are to be turned in. It is unethical, as are many practices in our schools today....but administrators justify their actions with this old diatribe: "It's in the best interests of the student"

I am just making a comment here....pointing something out...not arguing against or for anything we have discussed before. This is just something I wanted to expres and put out there for others to read. I probably should have started a new blog heading for this.

Are the issues you bring up limited to the high school level? I agree that classroom scores should play no part in the testing. Grading is to subjective. I know this is a fact. My son forgot some home work last year on more then one occasion. The days he forgot was the end of grading period. The teachers gave him full credit for the work based on his past classroom involvement. Other students that same day forgot their work and were given 0. I was upset to no end. Shocking, eh? My son learned no lesson in responsibility. In fact the lesson was, if the teacher likes you, you really don't have to do your work. Needless to say I had to punish him and have him write a page of "why turning my homework in on time is important" and an apology to the teacher for neglecting his responsibility.

Teachers should not be placed into the situation you describe. You are right it will create added pressure.

Sorry for the late reply. The issues I talked about are not limited to high school. I taught Mathematics at the Middle School level as well as the High School level. I had the same events unfold before me in both environments. If I was a person affiliated with the News, I would want to know how many students are mysteriously transferred to another class right before the end of a grading period. It is a dark secret, a loophole that administrators take advantage of and abuse. Education can be a wonderful thing for student and teacher, but it does have a dark side. If a teacher isnt willing to bend in any direction the administrators and parents want, then that teacher has a very short career. So much for ethics.